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India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

reuters.com

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Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#271

Post by throwaway2037 »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #240
pixelatedindex wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sancharsaathi.gov.in - Report fraud/scam calls and SMS directly from your phone. - Block or track lost/stolen phones by disabling their IMEI so they can’t be misused. - View all mobile numbers registered under your ID and report any unauthorized SIM cards. - Verify if a phone is genuine with an IMEI/device authenticity check. - Report telecom misuse, such as spoofed calls or suspicious international numbers.…

I've been using it since it came out. It does its job. I was getting 5-6 scam calls per day, now down to maybe 1 in a month. It's just a wrapper around their website (for now). I think this app is harmless but I don't think it should be forced onto anyone.

This is great first hand feedback. I like these kinds of HN posts.

How do you think it works? Example: If enough people report, then some police agency investigates? Rinse and repeat enough times and the scam calls/SMS should fall?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#273

Post by throwaway2037 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39
alephnerd wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://sancharsaathi.gov.in/ Basically IMEI stamping because sim card purchase with ID has come to be viewed as flawed/compromised by NatSec types in India. Here's some additional context from a previous thread on HN [0] [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40476498 ------ Edit: Can't reply Lots of old phones still exist, so a virtual/eSIM does nothing to give visibility into those devices. Also, India wants t…

> Basically IMEI stamping because sim card purchase with ID has come to be viewed as flawed/compromised by NatSec types in India Why not mandate virtual SIMs?

What about the low income people who cannot afford a new phone?

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#274

Post by perryizgr8 »

marginalx wrote: post #21

"With 5 million total downloads - the app has saved 3.7 million lost phones", this somehow doesn't add up for me, as this implies more than 74% of phones are stolen? Or this this govt lying to pad the numbers to make the app look like a sheep in wolves clothing.

People download it only when their phone is stolen.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#275

Post by wholinator2 »

brigandish wrote: post #247
phatfish wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like people want to hand over scans of their passport and/or driving license to random businesses again and again, every time the need to prove who they are; and have their ID documents littered in Outlook mailboxes or company file shares with zero permissions. Or be forced to install yet another ID app from a private service that requires you have an iPhone or "compatible" Android. The debate about this in the…

> It has always received weirdly vitriolic push back. Because, as the Home Secretary herself observed, it would fundamentally change the relationship between the individual and the state. > What really is the Government going to do with a digital ID service that they can't do already? This gives the impression of having done no research into a topic of which you now opine opposition to be "weirdly vitriolic". We live…

I dunno man, your reply doesn't sound _kind_. Maybe you could try to explain the point you're defending rather than ad hominem and overextrapolate a perceived insult. I genuinely want to learn and it's frustrating that your comment does not do that.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#276

Post by derac »

croes wrote: post #125
rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

> I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom. Living in a society already means giving up more than a grain of personal freedom. Try entering a store naked. The real deal is the balance between loss and gain

Is HN really so libertarian that this basic fact of being a part of the social contract is downvotable?

I'm strongly against surveillance like this, but saying you won't give up a grain of freedom is not realistic.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#277

Post by mike50 »

MonkeyClub wrote: post #192
nephihaha wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". This stuff is being pushed across the world. Digital ID? The only people really desperate for it are our rulers.

[flagged]

Hindu Nationalist

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#278

Post by komali2 »

amarant wrote: post #242
nephihaha wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mate, this isn't even remotely "nationalist". This stuff is being pushed across the world. Digital ID? The only people really desperate for it are our rulers.

How so? In Sweden we have digital ID and it's great! Super practical and I struggle to think of how it would be used to spy on citizens, given that it has the same legal protections as banks have regarding your account transactions etc. Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the bank…

> Like sure you could in theory see every document I've ever signed if you have a warrant for BankID servers, but you could probably glean most of that if you had a warrant for the banks servers anyway, so it's not really a new capability.

It's a single point of failure. Digital ID servers on creation because as valuable to compromise as value_of_bank_hack*bank_count plus whatever other services are rolled in.

Furthermore now only one warrant is needed, or one illegal executive order. Take the USA as a live example - legal protections aren't actually real, a government official with enough political power can just do whatever they want while the courts struggle to keep up, and then just ignore court orders.

If your identity is spread out in many different ways, at least then there's more friction to compromise. Just because one bank capitulates doesn't mean the actor immediately has health information on you, for example. Just because the unemployment office capitulates doesn't mean the actor has your financial records.

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#279

Post by jaco6 »

rishabhaiover wrote: post #22

I'm shocked by people and state using the crutch of cyber crime or scams to push a totalitarian solution to a problem that is better solved by improved education and targeted campaigns against common security pitfalls. I abhor any decision that robs even a grain of my individual freedom.

[dead]

Re: India orders smartphone makers to preload state-owned cyber safety app

#280

Post by komali2 »

phatfish wrote: post #229
lxgr wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of digital ID is a huge problem in many domains and enables a lot of scams and crime in the first place. Requiring identification in situations that don't need it is where the problems start, but that's possible with analog IDs as well, and is often even worse there (since these provide neither security against digital copies, nor privacy, which digital ID can, e.g. via zero knowledge proofs).

It's like people want to hand over scans of their passport and/or driving license to random businesses again and again, every time the need to prove who they are; and have their ID documents littered in Outlook mailboxes or company file shares with zero permissions. Or be forced to install yet another ID app from a private service that requires you have an iPhone or "compatible" Android. The debate about this in the…

> What really is the Government going to do with a digital ID service that they can't do already?

In 20 years, the UK suffers a terrorist attack just before an election, and then elects a ultra right wing government on a platform of "remigrating foreigners." You're a British born citizen but your mom fled from Iran in the 80s and immigrated to the UK.

If you don't have digital ID, and the government decides to "remigrate all Iranians," they have to collect information from several different government groups, e.g. maybe your mom got a passport in which case one government agency may just know she's a non-native British citizen but nothing more. Maybe your immigration agency stands up to the government and engages in legal battles to prevent turning over immigration information.

However if there's a digital ID system that lets the government instantly know everything about a person, you lose the protection of friction.

I believe this is one of the fundamental premises of representative liberal democracy, and one of its most redeeming features: balance of power is spread not just between branches of government, but through ministries/departments/agencies, which makes it much harder for a despot to do despotism.

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