What happens when people don't get paid for multiple months.
US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
271–280 of 397 posts
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the arsonists are on mansions in a private island watching it go down. The idea that the people in power will _lose_ power as a result of widespread unrest is bananas. Islands do make easy targets, though—they’re hard to move and they’re hard to hide.
Easy targets to whom? The imaginary people with the power to go take a private island in this fantasy scenario are the same people with the existing power to be on one. How are you planning to go storm those beaches?
> Easy targets to whom?
Anybody with a $200 drone and a chip on their shoulder. All I’m saying is: if there is widespread civil unrest, billionaires are going to find themselves with giant targets on their backs.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. They're not really, especially at this scale. Since they became a thing when Carter was President, Biden and George W. Bush had 0. Reagan had 3, but only for 6 days total and George H. W. Bush had 1 for 3 days. Clinton had 2 for 28 days total and Obama had 1 for 16 days total. Clinton and Obama's records are a bit more significant,…
> I'm still not saying this is definitively the Trump administration's fault How is it not? The budget requires 60 votes, not a simple majority. Thus it's up to the majority party to present a bill that will win 60 votes. Some important stuff in major democracies is designed to require way more than simple majority. In Italy, e.g. the president is elected by the parliament, but the quorum required is two thirds of vo…
> How is it not?
> The budget requires 60 votes, not a simple majority. Thus it's up to the majority party to present a bill that will win 60 votes.
It's up to the majority party to do so, but not up to the President to facilitate it, even if he's a member of the majority party. Of course he should help find a solution and has some responsibility if that doesn't happen. But Congressional Republicans could work out a compromise with Democrats with or without the President's involvement, and as long as they have enough votes to override a veto they can come up with a compromise even if the President actively opposes it.
This is only true if Congress treats the President just as the head of a co-equal branch of government, which is not always the case and is definitely not the case for current Congressional Republicans. The fact that they defer to the President so much effectively shifts more responsibility to the executive branch, but I'm not sure congress isn't still to blame even if they abdicate their responsibility.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
I heard a radio report that said something like 25,000-30,000 flights a day, so 10% would still be 2-3 thousand flights per day canceled. They said a majority of these would be the smaller legs from smaller airports to the larger hubs. The flights from hub to larger cities would be less impacted. However it breaks down, 2-3 thousand flights a day is a lot of flight crews not working, and similar cascading effects. So…
Fact: This government has done more to reduce CO2 emissions from aviation than any green protester could have hoped for. Interpretation: none from me. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Yet still not as much as Osama bin Laden achieved. If you want to take things to the extreme, why stop where you tipped toed through the tulips to get to?
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Didn’t they illegally take funds from the CIA to pay the military and ICE? It seems to me like this is ideal for them. They break the law to pay for the stuff they want, let everything else rot. Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me.
> Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me. Republicans control all three branches of government. What can Democrats do except filibuster and budgetary maneuvers like they're already doing? Democrats already tried (briefly) going along with the inhumane BBB and Republicans kept cutting and disregarding the law anyway.
So because the democrats have no power except to make things worse, that’s what they should do?
They have publicly said that the only thing they are negotiating for is one more year of health care subsidies. That’s a noble goal, but the country voted, and they don’t want affordable healthcare. If the Democrats ever have power again, then they can make policy again as well.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#276Stop paying ICE and use the money to pay ATCs.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not really ATC specific, but at some point most people in most jobs can't deal with indefinitely not getting paid and will have to go do something else even if they don't have a good backup plan. Working retail, driving for Uber, etc, all have vastly better ROI at the moment than working ATC getting a $0 paycheck. In theory they'll get backpay and have better future earnings prospects than leaving for an uncertain ca…
If they are allowed at work when they are not being paid, why don’t the airlines create a fund where they just pay them something so they can survive the shut down? IIRC the shutdown isn’t happening that often, they probably can just put money in it and use it when needed
Who should the airlines speak to? People in charge are either at home or very busy.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
If they are allowed at work when they are not being paid, why don’t the airlines create a fund where they just pay them something so they can survive the shut down? IIRC the shutdown isn’t happening that often, they probably can just put money in it and use it when needed
Alternatively, why doesn't the government have an emergency fund for use to cover essential personnel/food etc during shutdowns?
Who manages emergency funds?
Also, there are higher emergencies than allowing planes to fly.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#279ATC should, like some other essential services, be exempt the budget thing. This is a disaster in the making.
Why are Americans paying for ICE agents to terrorize America but aren’t paying for ATCs to protect Americans? What decides what is and is not an essential service?
Frankly, the dictator.
Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
You could do airspace overflight fees similar to how it works when you overfly other countries. It would make routing a tonne more complex tho
On the other hand, if the fees corresponded to actual use, that would mean that the infrastructure along the most frequented corridors would automatically be the best funded one, which would probably be overall positive.
For VFR flights, communication with ATC is optional until/unless you get into busy Class D or better airspace.
If the fees are paid by any pilot passing through the ARTCC's zone, regardless of whether they use ATC, then it wouldn't be fair for the single engine piper putzing around over his backyard.
If the fees are paid by only pilots who use ATC, then pilots will stop voluntarily using ATC, leading to decreased overall safety.