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I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

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Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aws would never do that :) plus you can also do it in aws with like 75 clicks around UI which makes no sense even when you are tripping on acid

> 75 clicks Well 2 commands... aws rds export-task create \ --source-arn \ --s3-bucket-name \ --iam-role-arn Then copy it down aws s3 cp \ \ --recursive The biggest effort would be then running the Apache Parquet to CSV tool on it.

Plus the s3 bucket creation and definition commands, and the IAM role and attached policy commands. If you do all in the webUI it's not going to be 75 clicks either but 30 for sure.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#272
Local first! Someone else said, "You don't actually need any of those things until you no longer have a "project", but a business which will allow you to pay for the things you require." -- Similar response I have for clients and engineers when they waste time/energy/money on "scale" when we are building a prototype... "scale is a luxury that comes with revenue."

Im sure some of you may quip back, "it takes money to make money". No shit. Just dont get high on your own supply... Be smart, be scrappy, slow down.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CloudFlare Pages is even easier for static hosting with automatic GitHub pulls.

Happy Netlify customer here, same deal. $0. (LOL 'customer'. But the point is, when the day comes, I'll be happy to give them money.)

FYI I just migrated from Netlify to Cloudflare pages and Cloudflare is massively faster across all metrics.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aws would never do that :) plus you can also do it in aws with like 75 clicks around UI which makes no sense even when you are tripping on acid

> 75 clicks Well 2 commands... aws rds export-task create \ --source-arn \ --s3-bucket-name \ --iam-role-arn Then copy it down aws s3 cp \ \ --recursive The biggest effort would be then running the Apache Parquet to CSV tool on it.

Those buckets and IAM policies and roles also have to be managed.

There are also turnkeys solutions that allow one to spin up a DB, setup replication and backups inside or outside of big cñoud vendors. That is the point of db kubernetes operators for instance.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#275
post #16

I dislike those black and white takes a lot. It's absolutely true that most startups that just run an EC2 instance will save a lot of cash going to Hetzner, Linode, Digital Ocean or whatever. I do host at Hetzner myself and so do a lot of my clients. That being said, the cloud does have a lot of advantages: - You're getting a lot of services readily available. Need offsite backups? A few clicks. Managed database? A f…

I think compliance is one of the key advantages of cloud. When you go through SOC2 or ISO27001, you can just tick off entire categories of questions by saying 'we host on AWS/GCP/Azure'. It's really shitty that we all need to pay this tax, but I've been just asked about whether our company has armed guards and redundant HVAC systems in our DC, and I wouldn't know how to do that apart from saying that 'our cloud provi…

In my experience you still have to provide an awful lot of "evidence". I guess the advsntage of AWS/GCP/Cloud is that they are so ubiquitous you could literally ask an LLM to generate fake evidence to speed up the process.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#276
post #16

I dislike those black and white takes a lot. It's absolutely true that most startups that just run an EC2 instance will save a lot of cash going to Hetzner, Linode, Digital Ocean or whatever. I do host at Hetzner myself and so do a lot of my clients. That being said, the cloud does have a lot of advantages: - You're getting a lot of services readily available. Need offsite backups? A few clicks. Managed database? A f…

> You're getting a lot of services readily available. Need offsite backups? A few clicks

I think it is a lot safer for backups to be with an entirely different provider. It protects you in case of account compromise, account closure, disputes.

If using cloud and you want to be safe, you should be multi-cloud. People have been saved from disaster by multi-cloud setups.

> You're not paying up-front costs (vs. investing hundreds of dollars for buying server hardware)

Not true for VPSes or rented dedicated servers either.

> Peak-heavy loads can be a lot cheaper.

they have to be very spiky indeed though. LLMs might fit but a lot of compute heavy spiky loads do not. I saved a client money on video transcoding that only happened once per upload and only over a month or two an year by renting a dedi all ear round rather than using the AWS transcoding service.

> Compared to the rack hosting setup described in the post. Hetzner, Linode, etc. do provide multiple AZs with dedicated servers.

You have to do work to ensure things run across multiple availability zones (and preferably regions) anyway.

> But an RDS instance with solid backups-equivalent will usually not amortize quickly, if you need to pay someone to set it up.

You have more forced upgrades.

An unmanaged database will only need a lot of work if operating at large scale. If you are then its probably well worth employing a DBA anyway as an AWS or similar managed DB is not going to do all the optimising and tuning a DBA will do.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 TB fits entirely into the RAM of a 2U server (cf. Dell PowerEdge R840). However, I think there's an implicit point in TFA; namely, that your personal and side projects are not scaling to a 12 TB database. With that said, I do manage approximately 14 TB of storage in a RAIDZ2 at my home, for "Linux ISOs". The I/O performance is "good enough" for streaming video and BitTorrent seeding. However, I am not sure what yo…

Still missing the point. This is just one server and just in the dev enviornment? How many pets do you want to be tending to? I have 10^5 servers I'm responsible for... The quantity and methods the cloud affords me allow me to operate the same infrastructure with 1/10th as much labor. At the extreme ends of scale this isn't a benefit, but for large companies in the middle this is the only move that makes any sense. 9…

Found the "AWS certified cloud engineer".

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just one of the couple dozen databases we run for our product in the dev environment alone is over 12 TB. How could I not use the cloud?

First of all, if you have a dev DB that’s 12 TB, I can practically guarantee that it is tremendously unoptimized. But also, that’s extremely easily handled with physical servers - there are NVMe drives that are 10x as large.

that's what I always brag to my devs, why is our DB 1TB, and only 20 users are working in our app. They are collecting all garbage and saving it to DB. Poor development skills I would say. Our old app did the same thing, and after 15 years it was barely 100GB with tens of users. devs today are SELECT *. If it does not work, they say we need more resources. Thats why I hate cloud.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#279
post #256
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started out with linode, a decade ago. It became much more expensive than AWS, because it bundled the hard drive space with the RAM. Couldn't scale one without scaling the other. It was ridiculous. AWS has a bunch of startup credits you can use, if you're smart. But if you want free hosting, nothing beats just CloudFlare. They are literally free and even let you sign up anonymously with any email. They don't even r…

>It became much more expensive than AWS, because it bundled the hard drive space with the RAM. Couldn't scale one without scaling the other. It was ridiculous. You can easily scale hard drive space independently of RAM by buying block storage separately and then mounting it on your Linode.

I think every VPS provider I have looked at any time recently (and I have been moving things in the last few weeks) offers some option for block storage separate from compute. Most offer an object storage option too.

Re: I took all my projects off the cloud, saving thousands of dollars

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12TB is $960/month in gp3 storage alone. You can buy 12TB of NVMe storage for less than $960, and it will be orders of magnitude faster than AWS. Your use case is the _worst_ use case for the cloud.

The most consistent misunderstanding I see about the cloud, is disk I/O. Nobody understands how slow your standard cloud disk is under load. They see good performance and assume that will always be the case. They don't realize that most cloud disks use a form of token tracking where they build up I/O over time and if you have bursts or sustained high I/O load you will very quickly notice that your disk speeds are gar…

What could I read to inform myself better on this topic? It is true I had not seen this angle before
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