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What if tariffs?

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Re: What if tariffs?

#271

Post by nobody9999 »

tracker1 wrote: post #262
M95D wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bernie was a 3rd option. Very few voted for him.

Bernie still runs/ran/supports the DNC umbrella... The socialists are embedded in the DNC, not a separate party. That said, most Libertarians are now under the RLC (Republican Libertarian Caucus) as disaffected neo-socialists have come into the separate party, and the Democrat party has become more Socialist itself. Also, Bernie should have one, but the DNC leadership absolutely cheats... this was incredibly apparent…

>Also, Bernie should have one, but the DNC leadership absolutely cheats... this was incredibly apparent in 2016 and 2024. Talk about an oligarchy/autocracy...

How, exactly? Clinton received 12% (55.2%-43.1%[0])/three million-plus more primary election votes than Sanders.

And he only received that many because Clinton wasn't a great candidate, and more importantly, the decades-long campaign to smear her and her husband.

What's that? 'Muh "superdelegates!"' Those actually didn't matter -- the actual votes by actual Democratic voters is what did it.

What's more, even if Sanders had not lost by 12% and had become the Democratic nominee, the ads just write themselves:

   Pan in on Bernie Sanders saying "I am a proud Socialist!" 
   with shimmering backgrounds of the Soviet and CCP flags 
   and portraits of Stalin and Mao smiling down on him. "I'm 
   Joe Stalin, and I approve this message!"

   Then video of Soviet/Chinese armies parading with tanks 
   and all sorts of other "socialist" imagery.
and on and on just like that, over and over. As such, Sanders would never have won the general election and it wouldn't have been nearly as close as the actual one.

Go ahead. Call me a liar. But actual vote counts from actual elections have nothing to do with "superdelegates" or any of that.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_Party_presiden...

Edit: Added more detail to the imagined "campaign ad"; Fixed prose.

Re: What if tariffs?

#272

Post by advisedwang »

mohas wrote: post #71

Do we still remember that Tariffs are supposed to raise the price of foreign goods and make domestic goods more reasonable for buyers? it targets buyers and this is how it works regardless of how it is presented to the public, I don't imagine lots of supporters if presented as it is.

> raise the price of foreign goods and make domestic goods more reasonable for buyers

Tariffs never make domestic goods cheaper. In fact if the supply chain has anything imported then domestic goods become more expensive.

The best argument is that it makes domestic good relatively cheaper, thus supporting US manufacturing and so keeping jobs and profit in the country.

However... that would require domestic goods to be an actual option. I don't see many US manufactured watches available, and the ones that are still don't really compete.

Re: What if tariffs?

#273

Post by LennyHenrysNuts »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #99

It’s actually quite shocking to leave the U.S. and experience the drastic fall in respect. The U.S. has over a century’s worth of dominance and control built in, so it’s not gonna unravel anytime soon and countries will need to grovel along for a bit. But the decoupling has begun, is almost certainly irreversible and is gonna hit Americans hard at most a decade from now. We have no idea the the chain of motion that h…

To be fair you haven't had a great deal of respect for the last forty years or so.

What you mistook for respect was fear.

Re: What if tariffs?

#275

Post by kuboble »

LennyHenrysNuts wrote: post #273
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #99

It’s actually quite shocking to leave the U.S. and experience the drastic fall in respect. The U.S. has over a century’s worth of dominance and control built in, so it’s not gonna unravel anytime soon and countries will need to grovel along for a bit. But the decoupling has begun, is almost certainly irreversible and is gonna hit Americans hard at most a decade from now. We have no idea the the chain of motion that h…

To be fair you haven't had a great deal of respect for the last forty years or so. What you mistook for respect was fear.

As a person who grew up in Poland.

In the 80s and 90s USA was idolized and admired. Yes, even in the 80s when officially Poland was still in a soviet influence sphere with soviet and communist propaganda being everywhere.

The word "Ameryka" was a colloquial used to describe something amazing, rich, high tech. The myth of American freedom, that in America hard work can lead to personal eneichment were told like fairy tales.

When Poland joined NATO it was like dream come true. There was this huge enthusiasm of becoming officially friends and allies of USA.

We looked up so much to the USA.

It's really sad to see that completely disappear.

Re: What if tariffs?

#276

Post by exe34 »

vasco wrote: post #274
exe34 wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you have citations you are holding off on for dramatic effect?

People can just say things, it's not all a big plot.

Well yes, I too can pull stuff out of my ass, but I wouldn't usually then call people talking about reality "but that's like your opinion man".

Re: What if tariffs?

#277

Post by exe34 »

charcircuit wrote: post #267
exe34 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to pretend. We know who's paying. It's the consumer/importer.

You are not listening to what I am writing. I am saying that they are equivalent. If you are not going to engage with my comment, why comment?

They are not equivalent. What usually happens isn't that people buy less foreign and more local, but that local sellers take advantage and raise their prices to be just below the foreign+tariff.

the fact is that IRS is collecting money from the suckers who voted for this and you're desperately trying to make it sound like the exporters are paying for it.

Re: What if tariffs?

#278

Post by exe34 »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #98
charcircuit wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it. Exporter pays: Consumer ends up paying price + tariff, then seller pays the tariff to the shipping company, which pays it to the government. Importer pays: Consumer pays price, then later pays the tariff to the shipping company, which pays it to the government. In both cases the consumer is paying price + tariff. A small difference is that some consumers could be psychologically tricked by the lower p…

> Note that what I'm saying doesn't concern itself with changes in pricing due to this. That's the problem with your semantics then. If the manufacturer no longer makes the same income because they can't increase the final price, in effect the consumer didn't pay the tariff.

what happens in practise is that local sellers also increase their prices so that the customer still pays more, but the exporter isn't paying any tariff.

if exporters paid tariffs, every country would put tariffs on things that they didn't make themselves. they only do it for things they're trying to compete in making. can you figure out why?

Re: What if tariffs?

#279

Post by vasco »

exe34 wrote: post #276
vasco wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can just say things, it's not all a big plot.

Well yes, I too can pull stuff out of my ass, but I wouldn't usually then call people talking about reality "but that's like your opinion man".

Would it have been better if I had asked for sources instead? How backed up was the talking about reality? What you agree with is reality and what you don't is out of people's ass when everyone was just sharing opinions!

Re: What if tariffs?

#280

Post by exe34 »

xyzzy123 wrote: post #56
exe34 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exporter gets paid the same as before. The buyer pays more. There's a subtle difference, can you spot it?

Without knowing what the product and market structure is, you cannot tell if the cost of the tariff will be borne by the seller or the buyer.

The shipment won't be released by customs until the buyer pays the tariff. I can tell who's paying. It's impressive how so many are contorting their minds trying to make this seem uncertain.
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