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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#271

Post by schmidtleonard »

9dev wrote: post #249
schmidtleonard wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's crazy to me is seeing this happen at an individual level. In 2022, my conservative family members were reluctantly but firmly on board with the idea that Trump did the crimes: lied to the tax man, stole the classified documents, leaned on the Georgia secretary of state to "find me 11780 votes," and on Jan 6 set up fake electors and asked Pence to overturn the election. In each case, they gave a good fight, but…

Isn't it curious how your comment collects downvotes, despite just stating facts.

Pretty much expected at this point. I'm much more worried about "Democrats are terrorists" and "terrorists don't have rights." Right now they're busy black-bagging immigrants, but I can see where this is headed.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#272

Post by I-M-S »

9dev wrote: post #257
rat9988 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, then who is reponsible for vengeance if not law? And why vengeance is not part of justice, this is not clear here.

Because vengeance has never done anyone any good. You never feel better after getting vengeance, just hollow. Thus, a good legal system should strive to provide justice, not vengeance.

Have you ever distributed vengeance so you can personally speak how you felt? Or are you mindlessly repeating strings of words that are supposed to go together like an LLM?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#273

Post by triceratops »

n4r9 wrote: post #152
rat9988 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Law doesn't seek to punish Then who is tasked with delivering justice to the victims?

Must justice include punishment? If someone hits me, I'd much rather they take responsibility, apologise, and work on themselves to become a better person, than simply get locked up for a while.

Depending on how hard they hit you, the extent of your injuries, and the circumstances surrounding the assault (premeditated or not, provoked or unprovoked), why not both lock them up and have them work on themselves?

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#274

Post by yodsanklai »

catwell wrote: post #40
looobay wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He received money from Libya for his presidential campaign [0], he's just a criminal ex-president... [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_financing_in_the_2007_F...

It's way more complicated than this. First, this is mostly about things that happened before his election. The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit, and he did not directly solicit money to finance his campaign either. However, some of his closest allies (who would become his ministers later) did the latter. The tribunal could not find any direct proof he was involved but ruled there were enough "converging i…

> The tribunal ruled he did not personally benefit

the money didn't go in his pocket, but he benefited from it by being elected president (partly thanks to this illegal funding), which to this day gives him a life of money and various privileges.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#275

Post by add-sub-mul-div »

greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

If you think that's scary, imagine a country where the corrupt ex-president doesn't even go to jail at all.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#276

Post by Foobar8568 »

Aurornis wrote: post #216
greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

> Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. How much of this is driven by contrarian and counter-cyclical reporting? I’m not familiar with French media, but I see the same pattern in every country where I’ve kept up with the news: Media starts being favorable to a topic when it’s up and coming, switching to being highly…

French media are owned by his literal relatives, one (Bouygues, owner of the largest French /media? With TF1 etc.) being the witness of one of his wedding and godfather of his son Louis. The other son is married to the heir of Darty/FNAC. I don't remember where Dassault (major newspaper owner) fits but they were both close as well.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#277

Post by thrance »

ants_everywhere wrote: post #197
thrance wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

No, I am calling for Sarkozy to experience exactly what he helped create, nothing more, nothing less.

Sarkozy ran a right wing populist campaign promising "zero tolerance" and being "tough on crime". He helped, through the policies passed under his term, create a huge overcrowding issue within our jail system. It would be only fair for him to experience all of that for himself, after the many heinous crimes he's committed.

I have been opposed to these policies in forever, and advocate for the humane treatment of prisoners. Now that Sarkozy is finally facing some retribution for his crimes, we should all feel sorry for him and bend over backwards to make his life more comfortable. Fuck that. He should reap what he sowed. I don't believe in that "they go low, we go high" bullshit.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#278

Post by Foobar8568 »

phtrivier wrote: post #226
greatgib wrote: post #146

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

I would disagree on the "most mainstream media". Clearly, all the right-wing papers that have traditionnaly supported him (Le Figaro, Match) and all the hard-right-wing papers (owned by Bolloré, Arnault, etc..) that have _personnal_ ties to him are playing their "opinion" part. I don't think public media is defending him at all. Left or Center-left papers are not (obviously.) The tie breaker would be: "what is TF1 20…

You forgot Bouygues (TF1) who was one of the witness at his wedding and godfather of one of his son.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#279

Post by chasil »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #170
darkamaul wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sarkozy was convicted for "association de malfaiteurs" (criminal conspiracy) related to allowing associates to meet with Libyan officials to discuss covert campaign financing for his 2007 election. Remarkably, while convicted of conspiracy, he was acquitted on the actual underlying charges. The tribunal acknowledged no direct evidence linked Sarkozy to receiving or handling the funds and that the disputed flows weren…

"Hoisted by his own petard" would be a more appropriate saying to invoke.

That is a quote from Hamlet, but it has a very odd literal meaning.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoist_with_his_own_petard

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