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Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

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Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#271

Post by paulddraper »

Veserv wrote: post #257
testing22321 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ridden the existing Vegas tunnel? Tens of thousands of riders when I was there and not a spec of dirt. Very far from perfect, but a long way from useless.

In 2023-03, they did passenger 1,000,000 [1]. In 2024-05, they did passenger 2,000,000 [2]. So 1,000,000 passengers in 14 months or ~420 days. That is a average throughput of ~2,400 passengers per day. In comparison, the Tokyo Marunouchi line averages ~1,100,000 passengers per day [3]. That is ~420x the rate. Every single day, they do what the Las Vegas Loop does in a year. The peak capacity that they claim without e…

> Every single day, they do what the Las Vegas Loop does in a year.

Tokyo Marunouchi is a multi-branch line totaling 17 miles; the Las Vegas Loop is a (not yet complete) single tunnel just one-tenth that distance.

This is a strange comparison.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#272

Post by dagmx »

testing22321 wrote: post #260
dagmx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LVCC Loop has demonstrated a peak capacity of ~4,400–4,500 passengers per hour in testing. How did you arrive at tens of thousands of riders?

I was at the world’s biggest automotive show. It was packed.

So then saying “ Tens of thousands of riders” is a lie since they weren’t actually using the tunnels to ride in at the time.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#273

Post by testing22321 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #270
testing22321 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are 100% correct. It’s small fry right now. You might be shocked to learn the first airplane couldn’t take passengers. Things improve, or at least attempt to. Even if it fails, I’d rather live in a world where new ideas are being tried and tested and not always talking about how good my horse and cart is.

There's that, but attempting to run around regulations despite numerous violations just doesn't fly either.

And they will be punished for it, exactly as defined by the law.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#274

Post by testing22321 »

dagmx wrote: post #272
testing22321 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was at the world’s biggest automotive show. It was packed.

So then saying “ Tens of thousands of riders” is a lie since they weren’t actually using the tunnels to ride in at the time.

I didn’t say anything like at the same time.

In my week in Vegas for SEMA from 8am to well after dark it was always jam packed. That’s tens of thousands of riders.

What was it like when you rode it?

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#275

Post by AgentK20 »

testing22321 wrote: post #259
Veserv wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2023-03, they did passenger 1,000,000 [1]. In 2024-05, they did passenger 2,000,000 [2]. So 1,000,000 passengers in 14 months or ~420 days. That is a average throughput of ~2,400 passengers per day. In comparison, the Tokyo Marunouchi line averages ~1,100,000 passengers per day [3]. That is ~420x the rate. Every single day, they do what the Las Vegas Loop does in a year. The peak capacity that they claim without e…

You are 100% correct. It’s small fry right now. You might be shocked to learn the first airplane couldn’t take passengers. Things improve, or at least attempt to. Even if it fails, I’d rather live in a world where new ideas are being tried and tested and not always talking about how good my horse and cart is.

I don’t think most people are arguing against the concept, or even implementation, of the system as developed. Obviously it’s both a publicity stunt and beta test as they learn how to build and operate a tunnel system like this. The concern is that much of the environmental harm that’s being done (according to the EPA) is repetitive, and that The Boring Company (TBC) actively pledged to hire an environmental inspector three years ago and is now being fined for having not done so. Given that, who knows how many violations that don’t leave a permanent mark are going unnoticed.

Do you think that they are going to ignore environmental laws for JUST this project, or do you think that is their modus operandi? I’d be happy to have a tunnel system installed near my home, even if there’s temporary disruption during the construction process. What I wouldn’t tolerate is active, and unmonitored (by TBC’s insistence on “self-monitoring”), pollution occurring near my home. Fines only cover so much, and un-polluting something after the fact costs far more than the fines that are being levied and, when it comes to pollutants that harm humans (like improper disposal of chemicals from digging, as they have been fined for), you can’t just “undo” the human harm with a fine.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#276

Post by Veserv »

testing22321 wrote: post #259
Veserv wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2023-03, they did passenger 1,000,000 [1]. In 2024-05, they did passenger 2,000,000 [2]. So 1,000,000 passengers in 14 months or ~420 days. That is a average throughput of ~2,400 passengers per day. In comparison, the Tokyo Marunouchi line averages ~1,100,000 passengers per day [3]. That is ~420x the rate. Every single day, they do what the Las Vegas Loop does in a year. The peak capacity that they claim without e…

You are 100% correct. It’s small fry right now. You might be shocked to learn the first airplane couldn’t take passengers. Things improve, or at least attempt to. Even if it fails, I’d rather live in a world where new ideas are being tried and tested and not always talking about how good my horse and cart is.

I would rather live in a world where you do not get to cause hundreds of times more environmental violations than others just because you imagine your new horse and cart idea is way better than cars.

You can, in fact, not discharge your sewage and contaminated water into public spaces even if you are trying something new. What a concept.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#277

Post by EasyMark »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #135
enaaem wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed! I think the Vegas loop has immense potential. There are many ways we can iterate on this concept. Perhaps we can use bigger cars, in a bus like shape to transport more people at once. Or we could remove the batteries to save cost and weight and supply the cars with an external power source. There is immense potential here and I believe this will revolutionise transport.

The Boring Company’s mission is in its name. Better boring tools. The Teslas running around inside it are dumb, but that’s almost the point: it’s a PR project. We wouldn’t be talking about it if it were a train. From what I can tell, TBC has failed to revolutionize tunnel-boring machines to date.

That's what I thought too. Boring equipment that could dig tunnels for extremely cheap. Don't know the current status, but I didn't think it was set up like picturing set of interconnected tubes like, for instance, the interwebs.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#278

Post by EasyMark »

leetharris wrote: post #172
wahnfrieden wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk uses his resources to lobby against mass transit in America. He is degrowth in ways that suit his selfish preferences (contracts for his companies over better alternatives, and wanting to avoid any proximity to other Americans in public). edit due to rate limiting: Yes Musk is one of the reasons we don't have high speed rail in California at least. He admitted to creating Hyperloop as a fake and hopeless project…

Ok so Musk is the reason mass transit isn't a success? So why didn't we get mass transit before Musk was rich? In Austin we approved an enormous rail project and the taxpayers approved billions to build it. Years later, they have descoped it by 75% and they haven't even come close to delivering that small bit they reduced it down to. Was that Musk too? Or is overregulation destroying our ability to innovate?

Yeah it's a weak argument. Public transportation is weak in the US because support for it is weak. It will take a dramatic shift in the Average American view of mass transit or some breathtaking price decrease in trains/tunneling/trams along with comfort of travel in said methods.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#279

Post by dagmx »

testing22321 wrote: post #274
dagmx wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So then saying “ Tens of thousands of riders” is a lie since they weren’t actually using the tunnels to ride in at the time.

I didn’t say anything like at the same time. In my week in Vegas for SEMA from 8am to well after dark it was always jam packed. That’s tens of thousands of riders. What was it like when you rode it?

I’m not in LA so I haven’t ridden it but that’s a moot point to the discussion.

Having tens of thousands of drivers over an unspecified time period rather than simultaneously isn’t really a flex imho.

Re: Boring Company cited for almost 800 environmental violations in Las Vegas

#280

Post by mschuster91 »

testing22321 wrote: post #273
mschuster91 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's that, but attempting to run around regulations despite numerous violations just doesn't fly either.

And they will be punished for it, exactly as defined by the law.

A fine that isn't based on income isn't a fine, it's a cost of doing business at the expense of workers, the environment and society at large. 242k, that's peanuts for someone with Musk level wealth.
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