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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

metalhearf.fr

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#271

Post by mewpmewp2 »

palata wrote: post #251
jimbo808 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that is crazy to me is that they choose to go after Signal of all things. Certainly there would be higher priority targets than a messaging app that has no social networking features to speak of, if child predators were really the target here.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

So ChatControl means that e.g. Signal would be obligated to automatically scan pictures and messages sent for CSAM. This is beyond encryption. And if they were to actually do that, it would mean it's non sensical for people spreading this material to use it as they would immediately be caught, so they would just use other tools.

But people are talking about both - the ridiculousness of the premise that this would help combat this and additionally of course the cost of privacy.

It's beyond encryption. Teenagers sending each other pictures could get flagged by AI etc. Any of your messages and images having potential to get falsely positively flagged.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#272

Post by jimbo808 »

palata wrote: post #251
jimbo808 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that is crazy to me is that they choose to go after Signal of all things. Certainly there would be higher priority targets than a messaging app that has no social networking features to speak of, if child predators were really the target here.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

Anyone using a mobile device for CSAM is in prison by now.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#273

Post by zenlot »

palata wrote: post #251
jimbo808 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that is crazy to me is that they choose to go after Signal of all things. Certainly there would be higher priority targets than a messaging app that has no social networking features to speak of, if child predators were really the target here.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

> A few decades ago, all communications were unencrypted and people were fine.

A few decades ago, a user base using whatever was available was about 99% lower than now. As well as governments were so illiterate that they could not read with the tech they had even those unencrypted messages.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#274

Post by op7 »

palata wrote: post #251
jimbo808 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that is crazy to me is that they choose to go after Signal of all things. Certainly there would be higher priority targets than a messaging app that has no social networking features to speak of, if child predators were really the target here.

This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…

All communications were unencrypted because encrypting them would have incurred unduly burdensome processing. Nowadays computers can encrypt and decrypt on the fly for virtually free.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#275

Post by stronglikedan »

kleiba wrote: post #195

The is the n-th attempt to install some regulation that would (a) lead to increased surveillance of most of the population; and (b) is trivial to circumvent by those who the government is ostensibly trying to target. So clearly, the cost-benefit ratio is severely skewed for the EU population. Assuming that the regulators are fully aware of the above points, it's not very hard to speculate what the real intentions beh…

> The is the n-th attempt to install some regulation

The sad part is that it would only take one attempt to codify the opposite into privacy laws as a basic right, should anyone ever bother to take up that gauntlet.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#276

Post by buildbot »

palata wrote: post #256
amarant wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cost of the proposal is "let's throw democracy under the bus" as it is in this case, it better be damn close to 100% effective to be worth it! I have a hard time imagining this will be more than 10% effective. This proposal is a joke

A few decades ago, all communications were unencrypted. Would you say that democracies did not exist then?

This is completely untrue! Important communications have always been enciphered since language has been created I’d wager, whether that cipher is specific terms (grog means attack that person in 10 seconds!) or a book cipher, e.i. The first letter of a bible verse than the second letter of the next verse etc. Humans have been encrypting communication since communication was possible.

It is now only recently possible to dragnet in mass many communications, store, and analyze them. The past decades have brought new threats to privacy democracy through breaking encryption at the state scale.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#277

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

1718627440 wrote: post #258
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the text of the Constitution only changes through amendments. That said, the effective meaning of the Constitution is "whatever a majority of the Supreme Court agrees it is." And to a degree, given the power to impeach Supreme Court justices, "whatever a majority of the Supreme Court agrees it is, and with Congress sufficiently on board to not impeach sufficient justices to force a shift in the balance of the Cou…

I'm responding to: >>> Remove the first and last comma and the sentence works splendidly >> Until then, the commas are officially part of the text. > Comma rules change over time. Maybe the equivalence of the sentence at drafting, today is without commas?

That depends on the opinions of 9 very specific individuals. How the text and its commas might be interpreted by you or I today is irrelevant.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#278

Post by niels8472 »

Ah, so we will fight child porn by detecting family pics of children in the shower (or w/e) and sending them off to a "trusted" 3rd party who will no doubt leak them at some point. Also, if I were a pedophile I know where I'd send my resume...

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#279

Post by lioeters »

ivape wrote: post #24

Can anyone try to explain to be how this is not a strain of mind-reading and thought crime? I mean, sure, we’re several decades away from the big event where society will adjudicate thought-crime, but this appears to be one of the first skirmishes.

ThoughtControl 2030: EU wants to scan all private thoughts and communications. Encryption as a concept prohibited except for corporations with security clearance and political connections.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#280

Post by gmuslera »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #53
gmuslera wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we could show them how this kind of things may go wrong. I don't know, the case of some leader of a nation they are having trouble with, abusing of a similar access with their data. But they will probably think that is only bad when others do it to them.

> If only we could show them how this kind of things may go wrong. We can. This has already happened with the fairly recent SALT TYPHOON hacks. China (ostensibly) abused lawful wiretapping mechanisms to spy on American (and other) citizens and politicians. The news at the time wasn't always explicit about the mechanism, but that's what happened. China wouldn't have been able to do this if those mechanisms didn't exis…

The elephant in the room here is US.
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