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Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

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Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#271

Post by breve »

amelius wrote: post #144
tokioyoyo wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, you fail the second you apologize or take accountability. Ignoring criticism and deflecting all the time gets you further, as it is part of the game. Unfortunately, this is just an accepted social science-y thing at this point. It is a very much cultural thing of the past couple of decades.

Isn't the case in engineering cultures, like Boeing before they changed into a business culture.

Tesla doesn't cultivate an engineering culture. Tesla encourages a culture of lying. Some engineers have become so corrupted by it that they're willing to lie about things that there's no need to lie about, like quarter mile times of the Cybertruck:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE

The lead engineer on the Cybertruck sadly tried to defend the lie:

https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551

They never even ran that quarter mile.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#272

Post by cosmicgadget »

guywithahat wrote: post #258
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The humans in the video spotted it far in advance. I think that any human watching the road could easily avoid that.

[flagged]

Did you notice the right side passenger?

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#273

Post by sidibe »

x187463 wrote: post #260
zzzeek wrote: post #130

I rant about Elon a lot but can someone just explain to me how this keeps going on ? FSD is almost completely a solved problem by the likes of Waymo etc. Why does anyone care what Tesla is failing to do with FSD? Is this all about, "how can we invent FSD without lidar"? Why are we bothering, because cybertruck owners don't want a dorky box on top of their truck? Does their truck already not look ridiculous?

FSD isn't just about the lack of lidar, it's the only system that can be employed everywhere, without any prior special mapping, by private owners. So far, there are no other manufacturers of vehicles available in the US who are meaningfully competing in this space.

Its the only system the manufacturer is willing to let it be employed everywhere. I bet Waymo would work better everywhere but they are safety conscious and care about liability.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#274

Post by mmmlinux »

magicalhippo wrote: post #230
general1465 wrote: post #50

Tangentially - If you as a European happen to drive on US highways, you will noticed that they are heavily littered with fallen cargo, aluminum ladders, huge amount of shredded tires and occasionally a trailer without a towing car... It has been so bizarre for me to observe this. Nobody is cleaning that?

I'm from Norway, and visited a buddy in Florida back in the early 2000s. It was my first time to the US. I recall I was completely flabbergasted by all the cars just ditched along the highway. There were lots of them, just off the road into the grass on the side or whatever. I asked my buddy about it and he said it was usually tires, as it was cheaper to buy another car than get new tires... Well that didn't help my…

the cash for clunkers program put a huge dent in the ultra cheap used car market. but also Florida has basically no car laws.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#275

Post by rhetocj23 »

iwontberude wrote: post #19
Mistletoe wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think the stock price would go up. His detour to fascism and megalomania has chased off tons of liberal environmentalists like myself that are the target audience for electric cars. I cancelled what would have been our replacement Tesla when he was implying on Twitter there can be good reasons for sneaking into the speaker of the house’s house and hitting her husband in the head with a hammer.

Nah Morgan Stanley and Wedbush would know the gig is up, the fraud would no longer be maintainable without Elon.

[flagged]

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#276

Post by breve »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #108
SillyUsername wrote: post #60

A lot of apologists say that "a human would have hit that". That's kind of irrelevant, this technology is meant to be safer and held to a higher standard. Comparing to a human is not a valid excuse...

> That's kind of irrelevant, this technology is meant to be safer and held to a higher standard I don't think that is the case. We will judge FSD whether you make more or less accidents than humans, not necessarily in the same situations. The computer is allowed to make mistakes that a human wouldn't, if in reverse the computer makes a lot less mistakes in situations where humans would. Given that >90% of accidents a…

> I don't think that is the case.

It's the standard Tesla set for themselves.

In 2016 Tesla claimed every Tesla car being produced had "the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver": https://web.archive.org/web/20161020091022/https://tesla.com...

Wasn't true then, still isn't true now.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#277

Post by pupppet »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #117

One of my biggest criticisms of Elon is that he rarely takes accountability for his words and nobody ever holds him accountable by asking directly. This isn't a high bar to clear, but some people continuously excuse him as being "overly-eager" in his predictions. If that was the case, he could still provide reasonable updates when a predicted date is missed along with an explanation, even if it's just: "Hey, it turns…

This would fly in the face of the smoke and mirrors that props up his meme stock.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#278

Post by cosmicgadget »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #108
SillyUsername wrote: post #60

A lot of apologists say that "a human would have hit that". That's kind of irrelevant, this technology is meant to be safer and held to a higher standard. Comparing to a human is not a valid excuse...

> That's kind of irrelevant, this technology is meant to be safer and held to a higher standard I don't think that is the case. We will judge FSD whether you make more or less accidents than humans, not necessarily in the same situations. The computer is allowed to make mistakes that a human wouldn't, if in reverse the computer makes a lot less mistakes in situations where humans would. Given that >90% of accidents a…

I don't think the decision should be or will be made based on a single axis.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#279

Post by rhetocj23 »

jve wrote: post #194
thefourthchime wrote: post #8

I use Tesla FSD 99% of the time. I recently drove from Austin to Florida and back. The only time I had to take over was for road debris on the highway. Off the highway it’s very good about avoiding it. My guess is Tesla has not been focusing on this issue as it's not needed for robotaxi for phase one.

A 99% reliability is no reliability. So per 100km I should expect 1 issue? Like multiple per week? FSD has to be much better than that to be trustworthy.

To put it another way.

A human would rather be involved in a crash because of its own doing, rather than because they let the machine take control and put trust in it.

Re: Tesla influencers tried coast-to-coast self-driving, hit debris before 60 miles

#280

Post by ModernMech »

foobarian wrote: post #253
ModernMech wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't disagree on the characterization of the technical details, then you must realize how very fair it is for us to criticize the system for failing in the exact way it's predicted to fail. We don't need 1000 more trials to know that the system is technically flawed.

What if there is no debris the other 999 times, and the system works fine? The video does not give me that information as a prospective Tesla customer. This looks like a fluke to me.

Tesla in 2016: "Our goal is, and I feel pretty good about this goal, that we'll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy all the way from LA to New York, from home in LA to let’s say dropping you off in Time Square in New York, and then having the car go park itself, by the end of next year" he said on a press call today. "Without the need for a single touch, including the charger."

Roboticists in 2016: "Tesla's sensor technology is not capable of this."

Tesla in 2025: coast-to-coast FSD crashes after 2% of the journey

Roboticists in 2025: "See? We said this would happen."

The reason the robot crashed doesn't come down to "it was just unlucky". The reason it crashed is because it's not sufficiently equipped for the journey. You can run it 999 more times, that will not change. If it's not a thing in the road, it's a tractor trailer crossing the road at the wrong time of day, or some other failure mode that would have been avoided if Musk were not so dogmatic about vision-only sensors.

> The video does not give me that information as a prospective Tesla customer.

If you think it's just a fluke, consider this tweet by the person who is directing Tesla's sensor strategy:

https://www.threads.com/@mdsnprks/post/DN_FhFikyUE/media

Before you put your life in the hands of Tesla autonomy, understand that everything he says in that tweet is 100% wrong. The CEO and part-time pretend engineer removed RADAR thinking he was increasing safety, when really he has no working knowledge of sensor fusion or autonomy, and he ended up making the system less safe. Leading to predictable jury decisions such as the recent one: "Tesla found partly to blame for fatal Autopilot crash" (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c93dqpkwx4xo)

So maybe you don't have enough information to put your life in the hands of one of these death traps, but controls and sensors engineers know better.

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