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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#271

Post by AlecSchueler »

vanviegen wrote: post #214
AlecSchueler wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's not a win for the environment. How is this calculated? I know that growing a cucumber has an environmental cost but so does producing plastic, delivering it and then using machines to shrink-wrap every cucumber.

This study, for instance, [1] looks at CO2 emissions. Which may be a somewhat limited view, but the effect is rather large: adding 5 wrappers around a cucumber (4 of which being useless) would result in about the same CO2 usage as adding no wrapper. And that's not even considering spoilage after the cucumber has been bought by a consumer. [1] https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/sustainable-food-system...

CO2 usage, I get you, but what about the plastic waste?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#273

Post by nandomrumber »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #266
nandomrumber wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australian supermarkets have excelled at replicating this paper bag fiasco. The white plastic bags they replaced are magnitudes of order more durable and able to carry, I should test this, at a guess ten times the weight. Basically you can fill a white plastic bag with 1.25 litre water bottles to the extent no more can physically fit in the bag and it will be safe to carry and reuse 50 times. Fortunately the white pl…

> Basically you can fill a white plastic bag with 1.25 litre water bottles to the extent no more can physically fit in the bag and it will be safe to carry and reuse 50 times. Yeah that's not good, the way they do that is with more plastic in the bags. A single bag weighs as much as 5-10 old timey single use bags.

I’m talking about the old timey bags, they’re still available, just not at the checkout of supermarkets.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#274

Post by latexr »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #267
ahartmetz wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to always have them where you will need them. I always have one or two in my backpack, in my car, in my luggage when I travel... Their size and weight is almost nothing and the only effort is putting them back after use. Which is where it occasionally fails, sure.

The trick is to not bother, just make sure your bag ends recycled not in the street or in the ocean.

Reuse is significantly more effective than recycling. Bothering is something we should indeed do. Though yes, disposing of bags properly is also much superior to just throwing them on the floor.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#275

Post by pnt12 »

parineum wrote: post #105
odie5533 wrote: post #81

It's a miraculous thing corporations have done convincing us that we're the ones polluting the environment.

Corporations don't do things that people don't want to pay for. The entire purpose of their existence is to provide products to customers that want them. The miraculous thing is people eschewing responsibility by putting blaming the person selling products to the people that want them. If ot weren't for all those drug dealers, we wouldn't have any addicts.

Agreed with first sentence ( and only). That's why the state must legislate and fiscalize rules that benefit the population.

I don't even condemn businesses (too much). For a single business to be more eco friendly it must raise costs anf lose competitiveness. For a state to mandate these stuff, all businesses will be on the same level - and they'll have to compete for practical or cheaoet ways to be eco friendly.

It's the tragedy of the Commons, and the only way to win is to enforce rules for everyone.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#276

Post by IAmBroom »

samrus wrote: post #149
qwerty_clicks wrote: post #139

I’ve worked for two refining companies. They aren’t about to rebuild their global infrastructure to make this happen…it doesn’t matter what possible, it’s what corporations can buy out politicians and the rich building a society that benefits them.

You could have said that about motor cars. That the horse industry wasnt going to give up that easy. Its all about incentives Having said that, deep sustainability initiatives like this require some forward thinking, and i dont see the public buying into preserving their own future when the reaction to climate protesters is eye rolling and the west and east keep throwing the hot potato of blame to each other rather t…

There never existed a "refinery" that produced whatever the equivalent of "50 million barrels of crude oil a day" in horses is. "Big Horse" never existed; it was massively decentralized, even when sold at large annual livestock events.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#277

Post by const_cast »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #267
ahartmetz wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to always have them where you will need them. I always have one or two in my backpack, in my car, in my luggage when I travel... Their size and weight is almost nothing and the only effort is putting them back after use. Which is where it occasionally fails, sure.

The trick is to not bother, just make sure your bag ends recycled not in the street or in the ocean.

If you recycle then it's probably just going to a street or ocean somewhere else. Plastic recycling is more or less made up.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#278

Post by elric »

eptcyka wrote: post #268
elric wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that's made any kind of environmental/ecological impact at all. The cheap, flimsy plastic carrier bags contain orders of magnitude less material than the reusable kind, and had a second life as a bin liner. Now I need to buy bin liners, which are usually made out of sturdier plastic on top of having to get a reusable bag. Most of the plastic involved in getting food from farm to home isn't the carrier bag or…

There are significantly less palettes being delivered and handled by significantly less people, thus it is far easier to ensure that the plastic used in the delivery process is disposed of properly. Whereas with the abundance of cheap plastic bags that are available on tap to the masses, disposal turns into a mess. I generally agree with you that we should focus on the whole chain and there's lots of easy wins to be…

I fear that this sort of focus on individual actions has made a lot of people rather upset (e.g. the plastic straws debacle) for very little gains. And I worry that it might backfire.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#279

Post by jraph »

ethbr1 wrote: post #256
jraph wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> happy to sort their plastic and sent it on an epic journey of fraud where it ends up in a river in India It's not like they like this outcome or are even aware of it. We can't blame the individuals who want to do things properly here. The correct solution to "broken recycling chain" is not "let's not recycle", it's "let's fix the recycling chain". The issue with non-reusable / non-recyclable stuff is that we have a…

The issue with recycling, as-practiced, is that there's no lifecycle accounting (in many countries, including most of the US). If we boosted plastic price at point of sale by a recoverable amount, claimable when returning the container for recycling, we'd get higher participation. Separately, we should also apply the same to the post-return lifecycle: company pays a premium for the material flow, then it rebated that…

Yes, and same for reusable containers / bags.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#280

Post by jraph »

philipallstar wrote: post #255
jraph wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, but removing the money part of your sentence: > They're different types of environmental. One is "I don't like pesticides" and the other is "I don't like eternal plastic waste". Makes its clear that both concerns would come from the same group of people, more or less. Or not? This is my question to you. Just take my previous comment as "What do you mean, different?". You have a point with your money thing. Su…

> I suspect this is how we ended up with this wrapped organic vegetables heresy It could be that things treated without pesticides might require more protection against things attacking them in transit? Who knows.

It would be quite concerning :-)

That would mean that we eat active pesticides when buying non organic food. Not that it would totally surprise me neither.

We do know that organic markets don't need the plastic though. But they might have shorter circuits as well (which is also a good thing).

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