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Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

businessinsider.com

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Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#271

Post by ghaff »

doom2 wrote: post #148
OptionOfT wrote: post #98

50 miles is a lot. That can easily be 2h in most big cities. To do what exactly? Sit in an open office in Redmond, jump on Teams to call with someone in Fort Lauderdale? Funny thing, I had multiple interviews with them on explicit remote roles (which are different from roles that went remote during COVID). I wonder if the policy changes there.

I live about 100 miles from NYC, which is 2-2.5 hours by car but only 1.5 hours by train. I think that that would be considered an acceptable commute time for companies with a hybrid work plan. However, every time I ask recruiters from NYC-based companies if their commute subsidy would cover the train, I get told employees have to live within a 50 mile radius of the office. Like you said, that could be 2 hours by car…

I grudgingly did it for a while to Boston. And yes, it was something like $50/day to commute however I did it. It got old even on the train even though I didn't need to go in every day. Wouldn't have done it long-term.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#272

Post by scarface_74 »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #231
Aurornis wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the company is possibly defaming the employees in a way that predictably adversely affects their ability to gain new employment. And there may be other potential problems that aren't apparent to me, since I'm not a lawyer. Why is it that the "I'm not a lawyer, but" comments are always giving the worst legal advice? There is no defamation case anywhere in this situation.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to say either way. See a lawyer if you're impacted and see what they say. Don't take legal, medical, nor relationship advice from the internet.

It’s getting to a point where it’s like you’re saying that I’m not a physicist but you might need to ask one before you jump off of a 25 story building, you might survive.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#273

Post by willio58 »

Mobius01 wrote: post #139

I work in a large company that mandated 4-day RTO last year. Even taking a completely objetive point of view on the situation leads to the conclusion that something else is needed. We spend our days at our desks, on Zoom calls. People won’t get up to join in person - mostly because the conference rooms are all blocked by “special projects”, but mostly due to the offshoring of positions and distributed workforce post-…

This is why I stay at a company that’s 100% remote even though I’m sacrificing many thousands of dollars a year in additional income. I just can’t go back for so many reasons. But the most frustrating one in my opinion is exactly what you said, that all of this can be done remotely.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#274

Post by ghaff »

rimunroe wrote: post #266
ghaff wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of which you would have anyway. I never cared about incremental costs for internet, electricity, etc. if any. I could have probably collected double-digit dollars per month during COVID but I wasn't even officially remote anyway.

> Most of which you would have anyway. Data caps exist and also higher service reliability tiers cost more.

The standard residential plan I had was fine for any work purposes. As far as I'm concerned, incremental needs for normal work are in the noise. I did have outages now and then but they were pretty much for reasons that would have applied to any business service as lines were down.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#275

Post by aeternum »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #212
Mobius01 wrote: post #139

I work in a large company that mandated 4-day RTO last year. Even taking a completely objetive point of view on the situation leads to the conclusion that something else is needed. We spend our days at our desks, on Zoom calls. People won’t get up to join in person - mostly because the conference rooms are all blocked by “special projects”, but mostly due to the offshoring of positions and distributed workforce post-…

We should know by now that all these RTO initiatives are not grounded in any reasonable logistics nor financial reasoning. Right now all of tech is in cut mode, and RTO's are a great way to do layoffs without calling them layoffs. Note that when Google got "too many" people RTO'ing, they did layoffs anyway. If your office does try to make things stricter, it's another layoff attempt. I don't think it will work, becau…

This theory is often-quoted but doesn't make much sense. Big tech including Microsoft already did multiple rounds of layoffs. Why not just do another round?

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#276

Post by prmoustache »

bluedino wrote: post #81
roadside_picnic wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> play video games and jackin' off during work hours. Most of the hardest working remote people I've known, and I've worked remote at over 5 companies across two decades, often don't work standard hours. I honestly don't see the problem with someone gaming at 2pm if they're also making sure shit gets deployed at midnight. I also have found that anytime I show up in an actual office it's hilarious how little work actu…

> I honestly don't see the problem with someone gaming at 2pm It depends on if other team members need to be able to reach out to this person at 2pm

Even when I was working in an office I would sometimes take 2 to 3hours bicycle rides at lunch time because it was the best moment to be doing sport outdoors in winter.

I would just make sure I had no scheduled meeting and had people in my team available. Sometimes I would do it to make up for extra time outside of office hours. This also allowed some of my coworkers to leave earlier because they knew I would stay longer to do my regular shift.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#277

Post by wongarsu »

fzeroracer wrote: post #197
wongarsu wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's stopping you from moving closer to the office, and incentivizing people to move further away is the last thing we should do Yes, rent 5 minutes from the office is likely very high, and it's much cheaper two hours away, and that's why most people live far away. But that is already a factor in salaries. If the office is in a high-cost-of-living area they have to offer higher salaries to get an equal caliber of…

This definitely is not how it works. There are a ton of companies in Irvine for example that vastly underpay their developers compared to the cost of living in the area. And if you were to assume that's how it works, then companies should be offering salary increases for RTO which is very obviously not happening.

Companies that underpay compared to cost of living exist everywhere, even in the cheap places. They usually end up with the people who can't get or don't want a better paying job.

And yes, companies should be paying salary increases for RTO if they hired on the promise of remote work. Not doing that will just means you now offer worse compensation compared to job conditions and are going to lose some people to greener pastures. Which might be a factor in Microsoft's timing: less job mobility right now

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#278

Post by xtracto »

Just out of curiosity, how much compensation would people be willing to leave on the table in lieu of "Remote" work? (this is different to, how much would you ASK to go from remote to a new in-office job). 10%, 25%, 50%?

I've worked remotely for 5 years now, and there is NO way I would return to an office based job. I even have moved to a small town where there are practically 0 tech jobs; and at this point there's NO way I would relocate for a new job. Maybe it is my age (44), or maybe I am even in a privileged position financially; but at this moment in my life I would rather quit my job if they made me return to office (even for one day a week, as it would mean having to move to wherever the office is). Fortunately I am in a position where I can go several months without a paycheck, and I have some passive income.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#279

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Mobius01 wrote: post #139

I work in a large company that mandated 4-day RTO last year. Even taking a completely objetive point of view on the situation leads to the conclusion that something else is needed. We spend our days at our desks, on Zoom calls. People won’t get up to join in person - mostly because the conference rooms are all blocked by “special projects”, but mostly due to the offshoring of positions and distributed workforce post-…

If I returned to the office I'd be working with teammates in India, Washington, Nevada, Minnesota, and Delaware and none of them would be in my office. I'd be essentially working remote from an office that I commute to. The worst of all worlds.

Re: Microsoft is officially sending employees back to the office

#280

Post by willio58 »

deejaaymac wrote: post #232
wordofx wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

When I was a teenager I played World of Warcraft for 5 years. During that time we did "raids" where 40 people have to pay attention and communicate, sometimes for longer than 8 hours, with people from around the globe. If teenagers can do it, adults can do it. Period. And if they can't, skill issue I guess.

Love this example. So damn true
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