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Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#271

Post by lotsofpulp »

otterley wrote: post #188
lotsofpulp wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people I see with Model 3 and Y are the ones who came from Camrys and Rav4. Tesla EVs have the most data to support their reliability (at least the 3/Y), and they are clearly very reliable. Plus it costs just as much as a Rav 4, but has tons more torque. And the software is much better even though it lacks Carplay.

If Elon’s antics didn’t already turn me off as a Tesla customer, lack of CarPlay support slammed the coffin shut completely.

I thought that too, and then Toyota wanted $15 per month for remote start and made it seem like they were doing me a favor when I went to buy a car, so I ended up with a Tesla. Ended up not missing Carplay, and it cost $20k less for a car that seats 5 adults and 2 kids.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#272

Post by myvoiceismypass »

otterley wrote: post #186
randycupertino wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I low key have a conspiracy theory that the "1 trillion dollar pay package" is just Tesla PR fluff - smoke and mirrors to steal attention away from the poorly performing cybertruck sales and falling stock. If they spin news with dramatic flair highlighting Musk’s bonkers pay package it's a distraction from Tesla’s more immediate and tangible troubles, political alienation of their buyers and ongoing regulatory and ma…

A pay package of that magnitude is a material business fact. If Tesla is lying about this, that would likely constitute securities fraud and risks imprisonment for the people involved in making it.

I would imagine the current administration has little to no desire to enforce this. There was already an executive order early on to specifically stop enforcing crypto regulation.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#273

Post by rainsford »

sdesol wrote: post #153
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're putting aside the political stuff because there isn't a lot to discuss. You're either cool with it, or Tesla is completely off the table. And nobody will likely be switching camps at this point.

> We're putting aside the political stuff because there isn't a lot to discuss I don't agree, as we are not quantifying the emotional aspect of the purchasing process. If people "love" the brand, they are willing to overlook a lot of things. Tesla was a status symbol and is now seen as a regret purchase and a toxic brand for many (see Europe and Canada for examples). I can't see how "politics" should not be considere…

It's particularly interesting because cars are probably one of the most emotional purchases for a lot of people. Car makers know this and put a huge amount of effort into brand identity. It's also hard to think of another company of any kind where the CEO is so synonymous with the company and so public facing. Maybe Steve Jobs or Bill Gates in their heydays, but even they had a lower public profile relatively speaking. And finally, it's hard to think of another CEO of a major company who has so aggressively adopted and broadcast very polarizing political views.

Tesla is such a perfect storm that it's actually kind of amazing the stock hasn't completely tanked, which itself makes it an interesting discussion topic. They make a product where brand identity is super important, have a CEO who is unquestionably the public face of the company, and said CEO continues to go out of his way to try to alienate a significant portion of the potential customer base. I frequently see Teslas driving around with anti-Elon bumper stickers, which I've certainly never seen before for a car company. It's hard to imagine a world in which such consumer sentiment among any non-trivial percentage of your customer base isn't a death knell for the company.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#274

Post by dghlsakjg »

utyop22 wrote: post #244
dghlsakjg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how revenue is determined. Revenue is determined by, well, revenue. You can lose market share and increase revenue if the market is growing fast enough. If you measure market share by units moved (as many markets are measured), you can raise prices and increase revenue despite lower unit sales and lost market share.

If the total sales of a market = 100 and Tesla has 20% share then it has 20 in revenue. Basic math dude. There’s such a thing as a top down vs bottom up approach.

You could technically guess it that way, in an incredibly simplified market if you didn’t have the actual number available to you. The car market isn’t incredibly simplified, and we do have the revenue number.

The numbers cited in the article are units sold. Tesla has 38% of 128k cars sold. Now tell me what the Tesla revenue was using your method?

See why serious people just look at what revenue was to determine what revenue was? It’s not a “bottom up” approach, it’s a “look at that reported and audited number and tell me what it is” approach.

Did you figure out what the revenue is yet, I'm super curious about how close the "top down" approach is going to be to reality. Don't forget that Tesla has revenue from non car products!

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#276

Post by plqbfbv »

akmarinov wrote: post #210

So if you don’t look at the Cybertruck, which basically can’t be sold outside North America, they haven’t had a new vehicle in 5 years. If you look at the existing vehicles: - they no longer sell Model S and X in Europe and right hand markets - Model S has had one external visual change since it was introduced, Model X has never had one - the refreshed Model 3 and Y don’t really have any battery or charging improveme…

I have to agree with most of the points here (I own a Tesla Model 3). The only point where in my view they're still far ahead is infotainment: seamless experience, regular upgrades, very good security, new features every now and then. Hardware-wise the competitors caught up.

I'll add: they don't have a city/compact car (Euro A/B/C segment), their "smallest" offer starts at the D-segment Model 3, which is a big car by EU standards. I know that for US standards these look small, but for the rest of the world they represent huge chunk of cars. People don't need a Model 3 for daily driving, they need the equivalent of a Volkswagen Golf, with ~400km real range.

If instead of the CT they had released an 800V, V2L+V2G, 48V B/C-segment car, they'd have grabbed most of the market. The CT was a very expensive (and stupid in some places - exterior in non-painted steel) experiment in new tech, architecture and steer by wire that had 0 follow up so far.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#277

Post by amluto »

rsynnott wrote: post #234
amluto wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve recently test-driven EVs from a few brands, including Tesla. One stood out for building an EV that actually felt like a functioning car: Kia. It actually has buttons for things that are commonly adjusted while driving. The current crop of Teslas don’t even have physical controls for reverse.

> The current crop of Teslas don’t even have physical controls for reverse. ... Wait, seriously? Like, you have to _use the touch screen to put it in reverse_? That can't possibly be the case.

Yes. This has now infected all models.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#278

Post by ModernMech »

aurareturn wrote: post #257
lgleason wrote: post #45

Boring lineup, Lack of recent innovation, poor repairability and a CEO who has alienated people on both sides of the political isle. The 1 trillion dollar package the board is offering Musk is a joke. They need to find a new CEO.

The 1 trillion dollar package the board is offering Musk is a joke. They need to find a new CEO. It's an attempt to rally the stock. It's tied to a $8.6 trillion valuation. It's basically a stunt for the public. Problem for Tesla is that Musk is the reason it has a 200 P/E ratio (and increasing at that). Without Musk, they are likely to go all the way down to a 15 P/E or less ratio in my opinion because they're decre…

> Problem for Tesla is that Musk is the reason it has a 200 P/E ratio (and increasing at that).

The reason for the ratio is because he overpromises and lies all the time. The valuation is now hinging on Tesla being a leader in robotics when Musk doesn't even understand what sensor fusion is. But Tesla's astronomical valuation is a liability for them because it's the result of Musk defrauding both Tesla's customers and investors. The big number looks great but it's based on a fantasy.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#279

Post by ponector »

mebizzle wrote: post #144
OWaz wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also has an instrument panel the driver can easily see. I’ve driven a Model 3 and its handling and overall feel was worse than a barebones Honda Civic. I’d say a Model 3 is on par with how a low end Chrysler feels to drive.

I daily drive a Model 3 and when I rented a Honda Civic for a trip I thought it was broken with how long it took to get any speed. You're trolling regarding the Chrysler comment lol Why are you staring at your instrument panel and not the road? The speed is just a glance at the top corner as you should be focused on driving ;)

After driving car with HUD the Tesla's approach is laughable. Especially when you need to maintain different speed limits in the city.

Reminds me cheap Peugeot 107 where tachometer is an extra option.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#280

Post by ModernMech »

jbm wrote: post #166
lgleason wrote: post #45

Boring lineup, Lack of recent innovation, poor repairability and a CEO who has alienated people on both sides of the political isle. The 1 trillion dollar package the board is offering Musk is a joke. They need to find a new CEO.

I've generally advocated ignoring Musk, but it's impossible to defend him in good faith as a reasonable figurehead for a multinational company. His X page in particular portrays a man who cares deeply about 4chan/pol politics and very little about his car company. If he cared at all, you'd see a better repair process with them. There is a Tesla repair hub in Calgary where I live, and I had to wait 5 weeks for them to…

I think the plan is:

1. Promise investors FSD/AI/robots are coming next year, sell them your stock

2. ???

3. Profit!

The fun thing is you don't have to sell any Cybertrucks as long as people are buying your stock!

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