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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#271

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

The baseline of no trade deficit between all countries and the US makes no sense, since countries are not uniform in resource or production. eg Lesotho/Bangladesh won't achieve a trade balance with the US when they produce what the US wants and don't consume enough to balance it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah9SrbCB7-k&t=1147s

Let's say this was the starting point. Almost immediately, this strategy of trade balance was dispensed with, leaving most countries with some random tariff rate that wasn't strategically decided.

Many recognizable countries, specifically the ones that the administration targeted for political reasons, ended up with adjusted tariffs based on politic. This was due to the administration figuring out they had overstepped or thought that they were too soft, when the influence wasn't effective. When it became clear the economics were being ignored, Trump called them some epithet that meant "unreasonable" and abandoned the tariff tactic in all but rhetoric.

What was the point? The most predictable sequence of IMMEDIATE events were likely the point. I believe the point was to try to convert the global crises (political, economic, and social) that existed around the world to purely economic concerns for simplicity. This was paired with jamming up the entire global trade system, which would allow the administration to listen for the squeakiest wheels. It was supposed to be an efficient way to prioritize immediate problems such that the administration would not have to learn about and weigh all the problems in the world.

Short and long term, the tariffs have accelerated the de-dollarization of the world economy, they has amplified income inequality, and have destroyed supply chains across multiple sectors. The replacements are necessarily less efficient (value is cannibalized by tariffs). It was a lazy and poorly considerer tactic, but it might have achieved the goal, given my assumption of purpose.

The issues that were raised to the administration were largely, left unsolved. The most prominent of which are the Ukrainian, Taiwanese, and Palestinian fronts and the weakening of the US hegemony due to trade conflicts. The good trade relations with traditionally friendly nations have been damaged, long term. Canada, India, China, most of the EU have made moves to distance themselves from the US chaos. Some strange side effects, like this weird buy in to american companies is a side effect of the show, rather than a specific intent. I can concede it wasn't all bad. The US did see some new corporate inroads into a few countries. Notably concessions from Mexico, who was willing to meet the US goals in achieving a trade balance (more or less).

Overall, it's possible the tariffs succeeded as a self-serving tool of the administration, but failed in serving the US as policy. Maybe I'm just wrong, but maybe Trump is just this simple minded and his administration is playing into the fallout, as it advances their 2025 goals (or whatever).

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#272
post #155

Someone with a gun to their head is the only party that would buy it. Latest mindfactory data suggests that in gaming consumer space is now 96% AMD, 4% Intel. Seriously: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1mfu3cq/this_... And doesn't sound like their next or next next nodes are in good shape either

I just bought my first AMD chip in years (a 9950X3D), the last one I had was from the early FX series. After how poorly those FX chips performed, I swore off AMD for a long time.

Ryzen definitely caught my interest when it first came out, but Intel still had the edge in performance and stability back then, so I stuck with them.

That started to change with the 7800X3D, and now with the 97/9950X3D lineup, AMD is clearly ahead. I'm not even going to mention the "new" Intel chips.

Funny how things shift. I'm firmly in the AMD camp now.

And everyone I know is in the same boat. Probably 3-5 years ago Intel was the only "real" option for the people I know, now it's the exact opposite.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#273
post #155

Someone with a gun to their head is the only party that would buy it. Latest mindfactory data suggests that in gaming consumer space is now 96% AMD, 4% Intel. Seriously: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/1mfu3cq/this_... And doesn't sound like their next or next next nodes are in good shape either

>Latest mindfactory data suggests that in gaming consumer space is now 96% AMD, 4% Intel. Seriously: That makes you think that this data is representative?

Mindfactory is widely used as proxy because its pretty much the only public data source on this that publishes monthly

If you have a better source I'm all ears

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I was not under the impression that we had anything truly competitive. Could we make an iPhone, for example, using only U.S.-made chips?

We couldn't make an iPhone because apple would refuse to cooperate, not because of a technical limitation. We could make a similarly capable phone though.

iPhone performance and battery life would likely slide back 5-10 years if Apple was forced to use Intel chips instead of TSMC today.

Not just that, the raft of features that may have to be disabled until that performance and performance per watt gets back to where it is today.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's one product we have domestic alternatives to it's semiconductors. We're a couple nodes behind TSMC. Using US only foundries or paying a premium for TSMC is not the end of the world.

Really? I was not under the impression that we had anything truly competitive. Could we make an iPhone, for example, using only U.S.-made chips?

I fondly remember my weird Razr-i with an Intel Atom CPU..

I can almost imagine we would have more trouble getting domestic phone screens, but I'm not doing any research to validate that gut feeling.

I think the biggest problem would be whether we could automate assembly enough to avoid having high labor costs on each unit

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#276

On the surface, buying 49 percent of Intel wouldn't infuse the company with any capital. It would just bail out investors.

It actually wouldn't. The sale price will be pretty close to the current market price, maybe %10 more. If the Government kicks in funds to underwrite the deal (say a loan to TSMC) then the deal would likely happen exactly at market price. That means investors who sell are getting the current low market price or a little bit higher--- they will still be down the massive amount. This is really bailing out current manag…

But TSMC isn't a design house. Intel has both fab and design. TSMC's management could only help out on the fab side.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I was not under the impression that we had anything truly competitive. Could we make an iPhone, for example, using only U.S.-made chips?

We couldn't make an iPhone because apple would refuse to cooperate, not because of a technical limitation. We could make a similarly capable phone though.

It's about time we tariff Apple as if it's a Chinese company anyway.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#278
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>so the logical conclusion is that American consumers will end up paying the tariffs. That’s been the point all along… they are significantly raising taxes on the bottom 90% of Americans and most are too stupid to even understand it. Gotta pay for those tax cuts for the wealthy somehow.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. Stop painting people as idiots because they exist in one of the most information hostile environments in human history. This isn't some natural state that's unrecoverable. The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. The first step to chang…

> It has nothing to do with stupidity.

In addition to being rude, its not a particularly clear word.

So I coined "idiodidact", to specifically describe people who have personal selectivity with regard to being teachable. (Greek/English usage: "idios"/personal choice + "didact"/taught)

Any resemblance, to any other word, would be a coincidence.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#279
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. Stop painting people as idiots because they exist in one of the most information hostile environments in human history. This isn't some natural state that's unrecoverable. The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. The first step to chang…

"Stupid" seems like a pretty fair way of describing that. If someone watches media that outrages them, misinforms them then causes them to make stupid decisions then the consequences are very much on their head. It is well know that the people peddling strong outrage are basically scumbags in it for the money and not the sort of people who should be listened too if you want to achieve long term success (which is most…

It's what they call everyone else (shrug). Why mince words.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#280
post #253
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just googled "How do tariffs work?" I got hit with several college level vocabulary words describing tariffs in both the AI summary and my first result. It might be less of a problem, if we had adequately funded schools.

>> What is a tariff? A tariff is essentially a tax imposed by a government on imported goods. When a product crosses a country's border, the importing company pays this fee to the customs authority before the product enters the domestic economy. (start of Google summary)

I'm guessing Google has a "be accurate" as its prompt, whereas DDG has a "be ducky"?
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