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I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

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Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#271

Post by insane_dreamer »

danaris wrote: post #246
edude03 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, this is a whole other philosophical debate - but why does anyone need to live in LA? I really doubt that people of sound mind are living their homes willingly to be homeless in LA. Sure - there is the crowd that think LA is where they need to be to make it - and I'm sure more than 0 of them believe in the grind so much that they do decide to be homeless on purpose HOWEVER (with no data to back it up) I'm confide…

I think that's the wrong angle to look at this from. People do live in LA, and they expect to be able to do things like shop at a grocery store and buy their coffee at a Starbucks. Therefore, there's a need for people to work at such jobs. If those jobs don't pay enough to afford to live in LA, that means there's a structural problem that needs to be solved, one way or another, and individual choices (like "I will mo…

> If those jobs don't pay enough to afford to live in LA, that means there's a structural problem that needs to be solved, one way or another

This is one of the key underlying problems that doesn't get enough attention. And the current Admin's policies are only making it worse.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#272

Post by anon291 »

foldr wrote: post #224
darkerside wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting in a plug for a great book called Another Bullshit Night in Suck City. https://www.amazon.com/Another-Bullshit-Night-Suck-City/dp/0... This is the book that humanized homelessness for me. I better understand how it can happen to just about anyone, the vicious cycles involved, and how it affects observers on a deep level. For the record, I found the article pretty annoying as well. Overwrought and vague. The b…

The concept of humanizing homelessness fascinates me. It really does seem that the cultural default in the US is to view homeless people as subhumans who deserve to lead miserable lives. I’m not saying that this is what you yourself consciously believe(d), but it seems to be the implicit belief underlying much of the discourse around homelessness on HN and in the US more broadly. Normally when we talk about “humanizi…

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Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#273

Post by edude03 »

danaris wrote: post #246
edude03 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now, this is a whole other philosophical debate - but why does anyone need to live in LA? I really doubt that people of sound mind are living their homes willingly to be homeless in LA. Sure - there is the crowd that think LA is where they need to be to make it - and I'm sure more than 0 of them believe in the grind so much that they do decide to be homeless on purpose HOWEVER (with no data to back it up) I'm confide…

I think that's the wrong angle to look at this from. People do live in LA, and they expect to be able to do things like shop at a grocery store and buy their coffee at a Starbucks. Therefore, there's a need for people to work at such jobs. If those jobs don't pay enough to afford to live in LA, that means there's a structural problem that needs to be solved, one way or another, and individual choices (like "I will mo…

> If those jobs don't pay enough to afford to live in LA

There's a huge gap between "I can't afford to buy a $700,000 house" and "I live on the streets" though. Renting is an option, renting (or buying) and having room mates is an option. Not living in Beverly Hills is an option etc.

> I will move away from LA") will never be enough to fix it.

I disagree - people generally go towards where the money is. People want to be a hair stylist in LA instead of North Dakota because of the high population density and general wealthiness of the population. During covid, we saw an exodus of people out of the HCoL areas *because* the "non essential" jobs they relied on also moved out (not clear which came first, but the point remains). So generally yeah, if you can't get your hair cut in LA because all the stylists moved out of the city, you'll either commute, or move where everyone else did (which I guess is gentrification in a nutshell)

Either way. I don't think the author is talking about the average starbucks employee here

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#274

Post by anon291 »

thrance wrote: post #145
edude03 wrote: post #137

I think anyone who has actually been hands on trying to improve the lives of the unhomed know that 1) it’s a gradient between “I get kicked out of x everyday and go back at night” and “I’m sleeping under a bridge” and 2) rarely is it the actual cost of the home that’s the problem. Often it’s mental health / substance abuse / lack of a support system. Heck I think there is enough movies/shows about how people fall thr…

I very much agree. This is how I feel too in regards to this "abundance liberalism": some people think they can fix the whole country by deregulating zoning laws and tweaking a few numbers. It seems foolish to me. Whatever the solution is, I am convinced it requires (re)building actual social nets and welfare.

And yet milei did basically exactly that in Argentina.

Sometimes the need to overcomplicate is itself irrational.

Why must the solution involve more than that?

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#275

Post by nikanj »

papa0101 wrote: post #265
rich_sasha wrote: post #190

UK has a chronic shortage of houses, as in, if you count the people in the country and how many houses you need, that's a bigger number than what you've got. Building in the UK is also hard. England, which is like 90% of the population, is very densely inhabited. Cities are sprawling, their road and transit infrastructure barely support their current size, never mind bigger population. Plus, with the housing bubble,…

That, and reduce the immigration ffs. Importing a city-sized population (500k+) every year? - Sorry mate, you just won't be able to build a new city every year.

In the 1950s the UK was adding about 260k babies per year with a population of about 50 million, or about 0.52% per year

Net migration (immigrants - emigrants) in 2024 was about 0.63%.

I would hope the productivity advances in the last 75(!) years would allow the Uk to build enough homes for 0.63% growth, when our 1950s tools and technology allowed them to accommodate a 0.52% growth

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#276

Post by queenkjuul »

jvanderbot wrote: post #234
queenkjuul wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans love being exceptional, especially when it excuses their mistreatment of the poor

I don't think it's fair to equate this problem with just "the poor", and it's certainly not fair to equate "the poor" with homeless, mentally ill, drug abusers, or serial offenders. Those are the folks I'm referring to, not "the poor" as a general economic class. That should be obvious.

It's most certainly not fair to equate the homeless with "serial offenders". Most homeless people are simply poor. Most of the middle class are "drug abusers".

But whatever you gotta tell yourself to excuse the mistreatment.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#277

Post by RankingMember »

smegger001 wrote: post #218
ty6853 wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having actually built, planned, and done all the paperwork for a house myself most the extra costs that can't be worked around (you can DIY everything if you want) is permitting, inspection, and codes. I just didn't get my house inspected nor did I submit engineered plans, so saved tons of money, but most people don't have the option to bypass 'safety' inspections and they get gutted like a pig following all those ru…

They may be desperate to hire anybody, but not everyone is willing, with good reason, to work 16 hour days with no overtime pay and sub-minimum wage no benefits and work for only part of the year and get paid under the table. only reason it make since for migrants is the low cost/standard of living back home and currency arbitrage where us dollar are worth so much more than their own currency.

Yep, there's plenty of awful jobs with no requirements but a pulse. The problem is that they'll grind your spirit and take all of your dignity and time, if not outright scam you themselves (see: MLM).

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#278

Post by insane_dreamer »

donatj wrote: post #136

I live just outside Minneapolis. There's an absolute glut right now of largely unoccupied apartments that have sprung up in the last couple years anywhere there was an open lot and many places there wasn't - tearing down a number of historic buildings in the name of cheaply built wooden framed apartments. Well over 100 new buildings in the last five years within a 10 mile radius. Most of them cost more per month to l…

Right. The solution (or part of the solution, there is no "all-around solution") is not only building more housing, but having a social structure that allows people to earn enough to afford the housing. But our society isn't set up that way. Employers want to pay as little as possible -- or feel they have to pay as little as possible to stay competitive and above water. If you're not earning a living wage, then it doesn't matter how much housing is being built.

And to say "just build so much that supply > demand and prices will drop" doesn't work, because private developers won't build housing they can't make a tidy profit on.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#279

Post by fragmede »

bko wrote: post #201
aqme28 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take a lot but it's a very static take on homelessness. Yes, homeless people are often in a mental state where they are difficult to take care of. However, that doesn't mean they're homeless because they're mentally unstable. Often, the reason they are unstable is because they are homeless. Being on the street heavily exacerbates drug and mental health issues. Plenty of homeless people start out normal and…

Maybe for some, but how do you see it playing out? Suppose you're living in LA or NYC, and you lose your job, get evicted (takes a few months and you can't land on your feet by then) and then move all your stuff to a shopping cart and start sleeping under a bridge? I'm sure this has happened, but if I were in that situation I would begin by moving out of one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the world. Go to the…

Not all of them, no, but if you give someone keys to a home the problem of them not having a home is solved. We may not be equipped to solve their other problems, but that does actually solve that problem.

As far as going somewhere else, the problem is accessibility of resources for the unhoused. Many municipalities don't like the idea of random people going to their town and using the benefits from that town, you have to have lived in that town for many years and ostensibly contributed taxes while you were able to work. So if you were previously housed in LA/NYC, your best bet to getting services is to stay there because having been housed there previously gets you moved up on the list for housing.

Re: I will do anything to end homelessness except build more homes (2018)

#280

Post by UncleMeat »

bitlax wrote: post #256
UncleMeat wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people are people. "My child should never have to interact with a person living in subsidized housing" is a rather remarkable claim. Is your plan simply to imprison all poor people?

> rather remarkable claim. Mundane actually. I want my children to play outdoors without interacting with drug users. Your perspective is skewed. > Is your plan simply to imprison all poor people? No, and this doesn't follow.

I do not know any other mechanism to ensure that your child never interacts with a poor person except to imprison them all.
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