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Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

thecity.nyc

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Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#271

Post by Juliate »

user3939382 wrote: post #58
Juliate wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Factually and obviously false.

There’s a lot in the law that won’t be necessarily obvious or intuitive to you, that doesn’t mean you should assume you know what you’re talking about. Go ahead and look it up rather than commenting about something you don’t understand.

The 4th amendment reads easy enough to me. Yet, I understand that case law might be debatable. And that deep political forces are at play.

Still, a state were police can operate (out of probable cause) without judicial support is just a police state.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#272

Post by potato3732842 »

disattention wrote: post #214
anon291 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a few days ago, some guy crossed a border with a young girl he passed off as his daughter when in reality he was a sex trafficker and going to sell the girl into sex slavery. Since we're all clutching our pearls, we might as well clutch all of them.

There seems to be a clear difference between criminals doing shady things and the government doing shady things. It seems like a false equivalency to compare an incident where a random guy does something terrible to one where law enforcement is rapturing people into the night while wearing masks.

What is law enforcement if not just random guys in uniform?

If the same acts are/were committed (i.e. ditch the sex trafficking example because the .gov doesn't really do that) what makes their misdeeds not equivalent to those of the non-state actor?

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#273

Post by [deleted] »

miki123211 wrote: post #171
potato3732842 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>(You can also easily imagine why it wouldn't be ideal to publish the name of someone who is actively being harassed by masked thugs.) If I were being mistreated by enforcers I would want my name anywhere and everywhere. Public scrutiny is one's only hope when government seeks to mistreat you.

not just government enforcers, any kind of criminal enterprise too. If I was ever blackmailed with "do X or we will kill Y", the first thing I would do is to tell the entire world. This would massively increase the risks associated with actually killing that person, as then the police would immediately know who to suspect.

[deleted]

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#274

Post by ethbr1 »

Tadpole9181 wrote: post #245
ethbr1 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chance to fix that is in 2026 at the ballot, and preparation every day until then. The whole "there won't be elections" hysteria is exactly because the current MAGA movement is scared shitless of being rejected again. Furthermore, if Trump-y candidates do poorly in 2026, he'll be a lame duck president with little political clout for his final 2 years. Politicians are many things, but charitable to unpopular peopl…

I mean, I'm voting and I'll tell everyone to vote. Support my preferences publicly, of course. But given the combined discrepancy between Harris vs the Attorney General in every single county of NC, the Elon contact for those voting machines, and Trump saying it out loud, I'm kind of at the point I'm not sure if the last election was legitimate. I don't have a lot of hope for 2026 or 228 since we're already past "the…

Some wisdom: There are and have always been problems with American democracy. Yet at the end of the day vote counts and protest counts are the things that change the country's trajectory.

Part of the toxicness of current news media is the "And this can never be changed" doomerism.

Bullshit. Everything can be changed. It just takes action and convincing others to take action.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#275

Post by [deleted] »

mindslight wrote: post #73
potato3732842 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. I would be absolutely elated if the end result of all this crap is a judicial president that eviscerates the many parallel syst…

> Right now you're making the same complaints about immigration process that hardcore libertarians made decades ago about traffic court and code enforcement and were brushed off for various reasons. They're keeping their mouths shut so as to not interfere with the learning process. Can you point me to some examples of people a decade ago running afoul of traffic or code enforcement, and being sent to an extrajudicial…

[deleted]

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#276

Post by potato3732842 »

chneu wrote: post #145
duxup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, ICE seems like a natural org to begin extra legal actions with, fewer limits, you just claim you're doing immigration things and put the accused on a more oppressive track.

Like it's seriously Nazi shit. This is police with extreme powers. All they have to say is "We thought they were illegal" and nothing will happen.

>Like it's seriously Nazi shit. This is police with extreme powers. All they have to say is "We thought they were illegal" and nothing will happen.

This is barely any different from "we thought we smelled weed".

The problem isn't ICE. They are just todays's live action remake of the same story we've seen before.

The problem is that there is no punishment, no consequences for all those people who, regardless of if through malice or ignorance, let these precedents be made and stand.

Arguably the current situation is worse than the abuses of years past because unlike drug prosecution to which a cross section of society is subjected ICE's prosecution targets (mostly) non citizens who will simply be deported to little effect upon the citizens whereas the citizens had to live with the fallout from drug prosecutions.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#277

Post by gman83 »

UmGuys wrote: post #257
speakfreely wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I ask this question in good faith: What are the due process rights that have been taken away? What is this administration doing different from the prior ones in regards to detaining suspected illegal immigrants? While I don't doubt there could be something, I haven't seen a coherent answer to this question. I am happy to change my mind, but in this situation all I see is a political candidate interfering with fede…

They're deporting them without trial. They don't even try to confirm they capture the right people. They've arrested several US citizens. Notice where this arrest occurred: at a courthouse. Why? Because this person was complying with the law and going through the immigration process. What about masked men kidnapping random people, then sending them somewhere like a prison in El Salvador seems just to you? Do you reme…

I feel like they're arresting these people at courthouses so that it will instill fear in others of going through the legal process. Then they can deport many more immigrants and say "look, they didn't go to court, they're definitely illegal".

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#278

Post by incomingpain »

atmavatar wrote: post #98
incomingpain wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They arent. They need probable cause to arrest just like any other law enforcement. If they just arrest you because you're annoying or fake charges. You can sue them for deprivation of rights.

Of course, all that assumes the detainee is given due process. If they're just going to kidnap people and take them away to El Salvadorian prisons, things like probable cause, miranda rights, and evidence are moot.

>Of course, all that assumes the detainee is given due process.

Well I got downvoted and everyone like you seem to think due process has been suspended.

Literally before I posted the guy had been released.

""I am just fine, I lost a button, but I'm going to sleep in my bed tonight.""

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#280

Post by ajb »

potato3732842 wrote: post #52
mlsu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. There is a parallel authoritarian system being built up, starting with the creation of DHS in 2001 and ending god knows where. T…

>Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. I would be absolutely elated if the end result of all this crap is a judicial president that eviscerates the many parallel syst…

I would be absolutely elated if the end result of all this crap is a judicial president that eviscerates the many parallel systems that the feds/state/local governments run in all sorts of specialty areas of law.

The mechanism that is not working right now is not the presidency - it's congress. You could have Trump still in charge, but if congress were opposed to his actions - even to the extent of just repulsing his usurpation of powers he's not supposed to have - he would be a lame duck. And in fact a president on their own can't revert all this, they need congress to pass laws.

What this means is that it could end as soon as 2026. But this possibility will not last forever; if Trump succeeds in putting in place commanders in the army and police who are personally loyal to him in spite of the laws, then restoring the Republic will take many years.

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