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Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

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Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#271

Post by somenameforme »

SoftTalker wrote: post #245
somenameforme wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a war of attrition (actually any war or even battle for that matter) the war is generally won by the enemy's morale breaking, not by literally running out of soldiers. When one side is losing and they know they're losing (or they see the conflict as not worth dying for), most people would prefer to save their own lives rather than die for nothing. So you get desertion, refusal to enlist, rapid surrender, and so on…

Many factors contributed to Germany losing WWII, but one of them was because they ran out of soldiers. They were down to using boys and old men.

They 'ran out of soldiers' because they were surrendering en masse. It's difficult to know the exact numbers on anything from that era because there are ambiguities and poor record keeping abounds, but it's estimated that some 11 million Germans ended up surrendering. [1]

So yeah as morale collapses you're left expanding the age of conscription, which further collapses morale. There were plenty of sardonic jokes about the Volkssturm, 'the people's brigade.' Why is the Volkssturm the state's most valuable resource? Because they have silver in their hair, gold in their teeth, and lead in their bones.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befehlsnotstand#Nazi_Germany

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#272

Post by bluealienpie »

jandrese wrote: post #4

This is only a few days after the massive drone attack in Russia. Only a matter of time until we have drones smart enough to dodge bullets (or at least dodge out of where guns are pointing) while flying at breakneck speeds being controlled by AIs we don't fully understand. The tech industry is working hard to bring about the Terminator future.

That future arrived years ago. Now it's targeting journalists, women and children. Ukraine is just doing it at a lower cost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCfv79C_-I0

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#273

Post by throwaway2037 »

ponector wrote: post #253
IshKebab wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$4k per drone... ouch.

Kamikaze FPV drones starts from $400 (without warhead), from $1000 if it has 20km of optic fiber or is an interceptor. If it is not a kamikaze, like heavy bomber or reconnaissance - $10k+. Extremely affordable!

How much does 20km of optic fibre weigh? Why don't these fibre strands suffer from the same physical limits as cabling used in suspension bridges? To be clear: I am not doubting that multi-kilometer optic fibre controlled drones do not exist. There are plenty of highly quality news sources and YouTube videos about them.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#274

Post by throwaway2037 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #159
lazide wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a laser needs a line of sight and dwell time. drones flying 3 ft off the ground, in between bushes and trees, at 100+ mph? not an easy situation. ramp up power levels so dwell time might only be 1/2 second? maybe. but then there is a race for rapid target discrimination. and then ablative armor on the drones (cheap and easy to 3d print), and backup cameras, etc.

And ultimately there's the cost factor. Drones can be mass produced for cheap, laser systems are specialized and expensive. Something I haven't seen yet (but is likely in development) is drone swarms, one operator directing a squad of a hundred drones like it's an RTS game. Only one grenade or kamikaze drone needs to detonate close enough to a laser system to take it out of action. Mind you, the system has a range of…

It seems like the power source required for a portable laser system makes it very cumbersome. Why not just use a fleet of very low cost anti-drone drones? They can be "AI-powered" to seek out enemy drones and try to damage them or throw a net on them.

I do think we will see more and more laser systems installed on large naval vessels as an alternative to close-in weapon system (CIWS), which, in practice, has not been very effective against missile attacks.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#275

Post by throwaway2037 »

trhway wrote: post #73
jandrese wrote: post #4

This is only a few days after the massive drone attack in Russia. Only a matter of time until we have drones smart enough to dodge bullets (or at least dodge out of where guns are pointing) while flying at breakneck speeds being controlled by AIs we don't fully understand. The tech industry is working hard to bring about the Terminator future.

>drones smart enough to dodge bullets well, there will be similarly smart "predator"/defense drones. The humans will have no chances on such a battlefield populated by thousands drones per square kilometer fighting each other. >The tech industry is working hard to bring about the Terminator future. And i think removing people from the battlefield is a good thing. >or at least dodge out of where guns are pointing just…

About your last paragraph: High level, I generally agree, but when you dive deeper to look at the numbers, I doubt that you can have 1000 USD drones that can fly at 200 mph/320 km/h. One quarter of that speed, I could believe.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#277

Post by jack1243star »

david-gpu wrote: post #120
Aurornis wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I imagine the slower speed is a closer fit to combat drones A lot of comments are trying to draw connections to combat drones, but drone racing like this has been a hobby thing for a long time. The capabilities of the drones are set to have an even playing field, not to match combat drones or anything. These aren't meant to have any parallels to combat drones, drones that fly long distances, or drones that carry pa…

We all understand that. People are simply observing that there an obvious path from this technology demonstrator to something similar in the battlefield.

> We all understand that.

I'm afraid not. RC/FPV is already a niche hobby, and media coverage is universally negative. No wonder laypeople mostly think of kamikaze drones when they see something like this.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#278

Post by throwaway2037 »

htrp wrote: post #209
dghlsakjg wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? One of the theories for why there were tires on top of the russian planes that were bombed is that it confuses automatic targeting systems by breaking up the profile of the airplane used in automatic target recognition systems. Hell, even hobbyist level DIY drone stuff can be easily programmed to run an autonomous route with or without a radio link connection. This is a huge reason that GPS is just cons…

If you can get a GPS fix (or a lat long to start), you can run an INS just as easily.

Most of the conversation here is focused on cheap drones. Are there cheap Inertial Navigation Systems (INS)? As I understand, it only appears inside of multi-million dollar cruise/ballistic missiles, fighter jets, and long-range bombers. Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, it might be that there are cheap INS systems that are good enough (e.g., "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades"), plus a bit of AI-enabled vision on the drone camera.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#279

Post by athrowaway3z »

akie wrote: post #199
close04 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which have a payload and sometimes a fiber optic cable The optic cable is for the human pilot. An AI piloted drone doesn't need it.

If we are ok with AI drones autonomously choosing bombing targets, then you're right.

I suspect the first big use case and subsequent rewrite of the battlefield will come from AI drones targeting enemy drones.

Re: Autonomous drone defeats human champions in racing first

#280

Post by IshKebab »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #273
ponector wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kamikaze FPV drones starts from $400 (without warhead), from $1000 if it has 20km of optic fiber or is an interceptor. If it is not a kamikaze, like heavy bomber or reconnaissance - $10k+. Extremely affordable!

How much does 20km of optic fibre weigh? Why don't these fibre strands suffer from the same physical limits as cabling used in suspension bridges? To be clear: I am not doubting that multi-kilometer optic fibre controlled drones do not exist. There are plenty of highly quality news sources and YouTube videos about them.

Presumably they are lying on the ground.
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