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Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

nytimes.com

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Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#271

Post by aynyc »

As a long time NYC resident who moved out during Covid but commute to work in the city. I definitely noticed less traffic on the streets and less noise.

I see a lot of talk of other cities that don't have good public transportation. For example, between Flushing in Queens to 8th Ave in Brooklyn, there are privately run buses at affordable rate and get you there at half the time of trains. There are buses from a lot of residential areas in NJ that are closer to NYC that go to port authority (west side, 42nd st) very quickly. In fact, those buses are getting there faster and more comfortable than ever due to congestion pricing.

I'm curious, do other larger cities where commercial is concentrated into one area not have a private mini-bus(es)? I know public transportation would be great, but having a competitive environment for privately own bus services might be the answer to a lot of cities.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#272

Post by epistasis »

tetromino_ wrote: post #261
epistasis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car. Car-centric urban planning is hell with kids. You have to load them up into the car for any small trip. You can't walk or bike anywhere because cars make it so dangerous. My only regret about living in the US is this car hellscape that is so hard to avoid. It's mandated by law, not chosen by…

> As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car. Lifting a 2 toddler stroller up and down narrow, crowded NYC subway stairs is the exact opposite of bliss. Perhaps you are unaware that many subway stations still don't have elevators (or escalators, for that matter) - only stairs. And where the elevators exist, it seems half the time they…

We bought a very fancy and expensive 2 toddler stroller when we had two toddlers and it saw almost no use because it was a hassle pretty much everywhere. I advise all new parents to avoid purchasing one until there's a proven need, and I don't know any other parents that thought it was a good idea to purchase one. I'm sure it's great for some kids, but certainly not mine or even most kids. I honestly don't understand the use case for it except for nap-time strolls around the neighborhood (and how often do they both sleep at the same time?) or maybe amusement parks when there's 3+ hours on your feet.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#274

Post by wpm »

kortilla wrote: post #225
jcranmer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were that delivery driver using a car instead of a bike, then your wife would likely be dead instead of in the ER. (At least in the US, having a driver's license is in no way, shape, or form an indication that the driver is capable of driving correctly, much less their willingness to do so.)

Car drivers are very routinely punished for running red lights. That is far less common than cyclists doing it.

Yes, a $100 ticket or whatever, horrible punishment.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#275

Post by gjsman-1000 »

bitfilped wrote: post #268
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has a 99% conviction rate, and still has 56% of women reporting having been groped on transit. This cannot be solved. To force women on transit is to flip a coin whether they will be assaulted. You’re not going to beat a car culture with that strategy. I heavily doubt that New York City has the appetite for incarceration that would be necessary, for even a remote chance, to turn public transit into a merely neu…

Japan is not NY and arguments based on sociatal/cultural behavior don't apply universally. Do you personally use these scary subway systems in the US that you have so many stats about?

Interesting; instead of trying to answer my statistical objection, you are now forcing me to provide anecdotal evidence; to then most likely reject it for being anecdotal evidence. Pass.

As for “it doesn’t apply universally,” that’s not an argument because almost nothing applies universally - not even a sunrise and sunset, if you’re at the North Pole. My point can still be valid in almost all metro areas.

Finally, let’s say I did use these systems (and, sometimes, I do use public transit). I’m a man, you are 90% likely here to be a man, we’re not the ones getting groped, therefore our personal opinions on the likelihood are obviously irrelevant. You should be asking your wife and your 15 year old daughter to ride for a year and rate their comfort level.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#276

Post by WalterBright »

tetromino_ wrote: post #261
epistasis wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car. Car-centric urban planning is hell with kids. You have to load them up into the car for any small trip. You can't walk or bike anywhere because cars make it so dangerous. My only regret about living in the US is this car hellscape that is so hard to avoid. It's mandated by law, not chosen by…

> As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car. Lifting a 2 toddler stroller up and down narrow, crowded NYC subway stairs is the exact opposite of bliss. Perhaps you are unaware that many subway stations still don't have elevators (or escalators, for that matter) - only stairs. And where the elevators exist, it seems half the time they…

When I can, I always take the stairs. It's usually vacant, while the escalator is packed.

I used to work on the second floor. My colleagues would all push the button for the elevator, and wait, wait, wait. I'd be at my desk before they reached the 2nd floor. (Some of them were jocks.)

In my 20s, I worked a stint on the 6th floor. I'd run up the stairs to try and beat the elevator. I'd poop out on the 5th and have to walk the last flight.

I don't understand why I am the only such person. It's just pure joy to run up and down the stairs. One day I won't be able to anymore, and that will make me sad.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#277

Post by rangestransform »

mplanchard wrote: post #187
oceanplexian wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If public transit even remotely resembled anything in China or Japan, Americans would ditch their cars in a heartbeat. But every train ride I've been on to Manhattan is like commuting through an open sewer while being harassed by strangers doing an obnoxious dance with a bluetooth speaker in my face, dodging puddles of urine, and wondering if today's the day I'll be thrown off the platform. Of course people would rat…

I’ve taken the train a lot in and around NYC, including a ton of subway trips. While the experience you’re describing is certainly not so rare as to be nonexistent, it’s also far from the norm. The large, large majority of subway rides I’ve taken (99% at least) were complete non-events. Perhaps you’re unlucky?

I would run into showtimers multiple times per week on the L, but seldom on other lines

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#278

Post by rangestransform »

kortilla wrote: post #225
jcranmer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were that delivery driver using a car instead of a bike, then your wife would likely be dead instead of in the ER. (At least in the US, having a driver's license is in no way, shape, or form an indication that the driver is capable of driving correctly, much less their willingness to do so.)

Car drivers are very routinely punished for running red lights. That is far less common than cyclists doing it.

Not in NYC, I’ve seen 2 blatant and intentional red light runners this year so far

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#279

Post by chongli »

mathgeek wrote: post #174
crote wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works really well in quite a few other cities, actually. Car infrastructure takes up a huge amount of space and is incredibly hostile to any kind of mixed use. Having near-zero cars means there is suddenly space available for an order of magnitude more pedestrians. It's why reducing car traffic almost always results in a significant increase in revenue for local shops and restaurants - which means more taxes are b…

> Converting all of NYC into a huge pedestrian-only zone obviously isn't going to work The dreamer in me immediately asks “why not?” and while I agree it will never happen, it felt good to imagine it.

How do you get all the food in? Manhattan is an island. Without constant food deliveries by truck it will die. This food is delivered to countless restaurants and grocery stores, not to some central warehouse, so delivery by train doesn't work.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#280

Post by lmm »

mplanchard wrote: post #183
jmclnx wrote: post #8

Seems to be working fine, I know the large city about 60 miles from me looked at this, and I am all for it. But its mass transit is a awful mess, at times walking is faster that taking a subway. I wish they would start this, but its politics is such a mess nothing really gets done there. New Ideas there gets implemented far slower than then ideas in Roman Catholic Church.

Transit always seems to be kind of a chicken and egg problem. You can’t have good transit unless you have good ridership, and you can’t have good ridership if you don’t have good transit. Everywhere I know of in the US with decent transit already had it before the culture of car dominance really took hold, so it was already good enough to maintain sufficient ridership to stay good. Does anyone know of anywhere that m…

> Does anyone know of anywhere that managed to bootstrap good public transit after the fact?

Shanghai. Amsterdam up to a point - they never completely lost their transit, but it was in pretty bad shape.

> Anyway I wonder if congestion pricing could potentially be such a bootstrapping force, pushing enough people to use transit to start the virtuous cycle of increasing ridership and increasing quality.

It can help. You need improving transit and densification to happen together so they can reinforce each other, so you need coordination between transport policy and housing policy, I think that's the key.

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