UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

Fact: he has not been accused of rape. He has not been charged with rape. There is no trial. There are no charges. And there are no witnesses, and no physical evidence.

And if you read up on the details of the story, and the context, it's very fishy. It's at best a case of he-said vs she-said --- arguably one of the perfect ways to smear someone's reputation and cause them legal and financial hassle, without having to meet the minimum legal standards to convict someone of guilt beyond all reasonable doubt. Men and women have sex ALL the time, 24/7, all across the world, in all sorts of complex ways, variations, situations, and very often without condoms. It's also a fact that a large percentage of women like men to be dominant with them and it arouses them.

Given all these facts, and this cultural context, it's hard to know exactly what happened behind closed doors in these incidents, and before the legal system ruins a man's life they need to be damn sure they're doing the right thing. From just what's known publicly so far this case looks so flaky and muddled and suspicious that a reasonable person could easily say those standards aren't met here.

> If I was stalking you as you are absurdly trying to assert

droithomme, has Philip Welch ever said your interest in his past comments on this issue was stalking? You have failed for one hour to provide a single citation showing your accusation is factual!

> you are the one bringing up and promoting the idea that the women have accused him of rape

It's all me, huh? If Google is to be trusted, the word "rape" has been used to describe the accusations against Assange by over a thousand news sources today alone. I promise you I'm not responsible for that.

> The search also turned up that you are interested in the topic of rape in general and discuss it across the internet. I have no interest in your general interest in the topic of rape

Now that's just plain bad faith on your part. My interest is in the basic human rights and dignity of all people. Some women get raped, and as a culture we do a bad job of handling it. We do a bad job of handling when men get raped, too.

> your propaganda tactics are far from naive

You give me too much credit, and yet too little at the same time.

> there is a conspiracy to harm them right here on Hacker News!

I'm not the one spinning conspiracy theories. I'm not the one calling people propaganda artists. I'm not the one who thinks it's all a CIA frame job intended to somehow make it easier to spirit Julian Assange away to Guantanamo Bay.

Yes, it's sadly a common thing for those accused of rape and their supporters to commit character assassination and intimidation against the alleged victims in order to undermine the criminal justice system. I'm far from the first or only person to notice this. I'm not accusing anyone here of doing this, I'm just disappointed that, as always, these tactics will interfere with the ability of the justice system to decide once and for all whether or not Julian Assange is guilty.

Fine. The truth is, it doesn't really matter. I would be ecstatic for the Swedish criminal justice system to carefully consider all the evidence and come to a fair outcome for everyone involved. My concern is that Julian Assange is obstructing this process out of either paranoid delusion or regular evasiveness, and his political supporters are all too eager to support his actions.

I must admit that I'm confused. The Wikipedia page says he's been accused of rape:

"In 2010, a European Arrest Warrant was issued for Assange in relation to allegations of rape and sexual assault by two women in Sweden"

That seems to imply that an attorney was able to present sufficient evidence to a court to merit an arrest warrant being issued. I don't know the facts of the case in depth, but you seem to be asserting that European Arrest Warrants are issued capriciously, with no regard for due process. That would seem to be far more worrying that the specifics of this case.

>> There is no trial. There are no charges.

At least in the US, those typically come after the suspect is apprehended (and not in that order). Perhaps it's different in European courts. But I was not aware that trials in absentia were the norm there.

I really recommend you read the source/upstream material before making claims like that. First of all, the women have not accused him of rape. At worst, of having intercourse without a condom, against someone's momentary preference. With women who otherwise already willingly went to bed with him and became sexual partners with him. Neither woman wants charges against him. The documented reason why they approached the police originally was just to learn if he could be compelled to have an STD test performed. That's it. Also the original prosecutor who looked at it decided there wasn't anything to pursue, and not enough evidence to convict on anything. If you look at all the details of the case, and I mean ALL the details and context, I think there is only one of a few things that probably happened: either (1) it was a frame-up that the women were in on, or (2) it was not a frame-up by the women, not intentionally, they were honest, but some particular party in the Swedish government or law enforcement decided to "make hay" out of this as much as they could to hurt or impede Assange. Either of those scenarios seem to be the most consistent with everything known and observed to date.

Also I'm sure there have been millions if not billions of incidents of sex across the world, to date, if not happening again every day, where one or both participants preferred, either beforehand, or during, or afterward, that a condom was used, even though it wasn't, and in 99.99% of those cases nobody considers it "rape". At most, a non-ideal incident, a risky event, or something to get angry about with one's partner, in private. But I'm sure it's a very common occurrence, both between singles and married couples, and in the vast majority of cases it doesn't turn into claims of rape or major international diplomatic incidents. It's just one of those life oopsies. I bet a lot of children were brought into this world because of this kind of oopsie, however non-ideal. Regardless, it's a fact that they went to bed with him willingly. It's a fact that neither appeared distraught or made any complaints about it to friends afterward. It's a fact that there were no signs of violence or physical harm. Also it's a fact that a large percentage of women fantasize about dominant men, sexually. Is it possible that in this case Assange was too aggressive and insensitive? Absolutely! And who's business should that be? At most, Assange and these two other individuals. Period. End of story. And ultimately, those are the only people who really know, for sure, what really happened, and how it happened. The rest is spectacle and fodder for speculation and diplomatic warfare.