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Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

economist.com

271–280 of 311 posts

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#271
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to understand the context in which these laws and Constitutional amendments were written. They were designed and enacted after the Civil War (in the case of the Fourteenth Amendment) and the 1960s (Civil Rights Act, once we determined the Fourteenth Amendment was insufficient) to prevent Black people from being discriminated against. At the time, nobody, including the authors, considered these laws to…

At the time, nobody, including the authors, considered these laws to be a shield to protect white and Asian people from discrimination. This is very much false, and can be easily refuted by reading what the lawmakers were saying as the law was being passed. For example, here's from the DoJ's memorandum, as quoted on the Senate floor by Senator Clark: > "Finally, it has been asserted that title VII would impose a requ…

I respect your argument, and in my research, I found articles in support of your opinion.

Nevertheless, when the Supreme Court adjudicated the question in United Steelworks v. Weber, 443 U.S. 193 (1979), this is what they said:

"""Our conclusion is further reinforced by examination of the language and legislative history of 703 (j) of Title VII. Opponents of Title VII raised two related arguments against the bill. First, they argued that the Act would be interpreted to require employers with racially imbalanced work forces to grant preferential treatment to racial minorities in order to integrate. Second, they argued that employers with racially imbalanced work forces would grant preferential treatment to racial minorities, even if not required to do so by the Act. See 110 Cong. Rec. 8618-8619 (1964) (remarks of Sen. Sparkman). Had Congress meant to prohibit all race-conscious affirmative action; as respondent urges, it easily could have answered both objections by providing that Title VII would not require or permit racially preferential integration efforts. But Congress did not choose such a course. Rather, Congress added 703 (j) which addresses only the first objection. The section provides that nothing contained in Title VII "shall be interpreted to require any employer . . . to grant preferential treatment . . . to any group because of the race . . . of such . . . group on account of" a de facto racial imbalance in the employer's work force. The section does not state that "nothing in Title VII shall be interpreted to permit" voluntary affirmative efforts to correct racial imbalances. The natural inference is that Congress chose not to forbid all voluntary race-conscious affirmative action.

The reasons for this choice are evident from the legislative record. Title VII could not have been enacted into law without substantial support from legislators in both Houses who traditionally resisted federal regulation of private business. Those legislators demanded as a price for their support that "management prerogatives, and union freedoms . . . be left undisturbed to the greatest extent possible." H. R. Rep. No. 914, 88th Cong., 1st Sess., pt. 2, p. 29 (1963). Section 703 (j) was proposed by Senator Dirksen to allay any fears that the Act might be interpreted in such a way as to upset this compromise. The section was designed to prevent 703 of Title VII from being interpreted in such a way as to lead to undue "Federal Government interference with private businesses because of some Federal employee's ideas about racial balance or racial imbalance." 110 Cong. Rec. 14314 (1964) (remarks of Sen. Miller). 6 See also id., at 9881 (remarks of Sen. Allott); id., at 10520 (remarks of Sen. Carlson) id., at 11471 (remarks of Sen. Javits); id., at 12817 (remarks of Sen. Dirksen). Clearly, a prohibition against all voluntary, race-conscious, affirmative action efforts would disserve these ends. Such a prohibition would augment the powers of the Federal Government and diminish traditional management prerogatives while at the same time impeding attainment of the ultimate statutory goals. In view of this legislative history and in view of Congress' desire to avoid undue federal regulation of private businesses, use of the word "require" rather than the phrase "require or permit" in 703 (j) fortifies the conclusion that Congress did not intend to limit traditional business freedom to such a degree as to prohibit all voluntary, race-conscious affirmative action. """

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#272
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you here. I also think that (allegedly) ignoring federal statutes while reorganizing the government is pretty clearly an official act. So everything we are discussing is an official act. If the Executive isn’t bound to follow federal appropriations laws, there’s no principled reason why he should have to follow other federal laws. And as you show, the president has full criminal immunity as well. What ot…

> What other laws are there that might limit his conduct? I’m of the understanding that where we are now is the only potential check on Presidents going forward is impeachment and removal from office. It’s a blunt instrument, but apparently there are no other applicable mechanisms. The primary check on the President is elections, not “the law.” Secondarily, there’s impeachment, and Congress’s power of the purse. Thos…

> You won’t find anywhere in those primary sources where the founders envisioned some “rule of law” where private litigants use the court to micromanage executive policy.

Marbury vs Madison established the judiciaries authority to review actions of the executive. That was in 1803.

Regarding rule of law, in that opinion:

> When the heads of the departments of the Government are the political or confidential officers of the Executive, merely to execute the will of the President, or rather to act in cases in which the Executive possesses a constitutional or legal discretion, nothing can be more perfectly clear than that their acts are only politically examinable. But where a specific duty is assigned by law, and individual rights depend upon the performance of that duty, it seems equally clear that the individual who considers himself injured has a right to resort to the laws of his country for a remedy.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#273
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situations are a little different. With NSF grants, the question is whether the President can redistribute funding away from applicants affiliated with specific institutions he doesn’t like (my first approximation: probably). With USAID, the question is whether the President has the authority to disband an entire Agency established and appropriated by Congress (22 U.S.C. 6563) (my first approximation: probably no…

Point taken. I was mostly addressing the larger question of whether the Executive is breaking the law wrt appropriations. Likely yes. With science funding grants, the administration likely has latitude to make some changes, but the specifics of that latitude are going to be embedded in a thicket of overlapping statutes of different vintages. Without going through all the specific statutes, I relied on the suggestion…

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Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would solve themselves. all of the good PIs at the good private schools would go to the good public schools. there's no actual inherent reason why private schools are bad like you're implying.

I'm skeptical of the idea that money and fix any problem, and that there are no inherent differences. Setting that aside, why do you think it is even desirable to limit funding to public institutions in the first place? Seems like you're starting from this position and moving backwards. If Public schools are superior, why haven't they already out competed private institutions? They have a pretty huge advantage from a…

private schools were first that's pretty much it.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you can protest whatever, even things that are not real (like the so called genocide, where the population actually grows). There should of course be limits to your protest: violence against people you disagree with should never be an option. PS: if you can stop the war by returning all the hostages, it's not a genocide.

both sides have hostages, and every country in the world besides the US and Israel call it one, in case you missed that

1 year old children as hostages?

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is self-answering as soon as you read the first two sentences though. > Columbia...has an endowment of roughly $15bn. Mr Trump’s administration withheld a mere $400m in federal funding. With the best investing in the world, that $15bn might throw off 1 billion a year in perpetuity. $400m (a year) is a very serious chunk of the university's budget.

Exactly... Scaling the numbers down: It's as if a person has $1.5M net worth, and their investments produce $100K per year. They are also simply being handed $40K per year from someone they disagree with, but who otherwise reliably provides that income. Are they just going to turn that money down because of this ethical disagreement? A lot of people wouldn't.

Or alternatively, their investments from one account produce $100K per year, their investments from another account (non-Federal grants) produce an unknown amount, and they have a job (tuition payments) that produces another unknown amount. How significant is 40% of the 100K?

We don't know unless we fill in the unknown numbers. Knowing that the amount of federal aid being removed is 40% of an estimate of the amount produced by one source (the endowment) isn't enough information to answer the question. The right question is what percentage of their budget this represents.

From what I can tell, Harvard's actual annual budget is about $6.5B (https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2024/10/financial-report-fis...). A $400M shortfall is thus about 6% of their annual budget. Significant, but also something they could probably cover for the next decade or two by drawing down their endowment until they adjust.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The judicial branch has authority to stop him but they're only supposed to use it if they are convinced that what he's doing is unconstitutional. This is not true. They can also stop him if what he is doing is illegal . Statute can absolutely constrain the executive.

> Statute can absolutely constrain the executive. This is an open question. The judicial branch has authority, on paper. But without means of enforcing that authority, it cannot truly constrain the executive.

Read the RFCP. ArtIII judges can absolutely empower people other than USMS to carry out legal orders such as service of process and enforcement of contempt orders.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#278
post #11

This framing conveniently ignores the question of whether the president should have the authority to single-handedly withhold funding for universities, broadly considered to be one of the foundational pillars of America's strength in the 20th century. While I think it's interesting and answers the specific question it raises, it's wild that the economist has just accepted that the president has dictatorial powers.

[dead]

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true only to the extent that Congress delegates its power to the executive. Per Article I of the Constitution, Congress has the plenary power of the purse. So if it decides to spend $X on something specific , it has to be spent on whatever that something is. The President doesn't have discretion in that case.

> So if it decides to spend $X on something specific, it has to be spent on whatever that something is. The President doesn't have discretion in that case. But the Congress never did that. You won't find an appropriations bill where Congress allocated $X to Harvard and $Y to Princeton, etc. In fact, it did the opposite. Under Title VI, it empowered the executive branch to withhold money based on civil rights violatio…

Right, under Title VI.

Trump is not using Title VI to justify withholding federal funding. He's just withholding federal funding and his minions are coming up with the justification after the fact. And even then, it's insufficient, because Title VI requires an investigation and a fair amount of procedure.

Re: Why can't Ivies cope with losing a few hundred million?

#280
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is in fact not what the Supreme Court said. It said that the President has immunity for “official acts,” just like Congress members and judges. Say a judge dismisses an indictment of an accused murderer because the police didn’t have a proper search warrant. Then the accused murderer kills someone else. That could fall within the letter of “negligent homicide” laws, but the judge can’t be prosecuted for that bec…

I agree with you here. I also think that (allegedly) ignoring federal statutes while reorganizing the government is pretty clearly an official act. So everything we are discussing is an official act. If the Executive isn’t bound to follow federal appropriations laws, there’s no principled reason why he should have to follow other federal laws. And as you show, the president has full criminal immunity as well. What ot…

You're not wrong. If the President does not follow a federal law, he is not performing an official act, and he is not immune from criminal liability.

If he chooses to continue to ignore the law, the solution isn't the courts. It's the Second Amendment, which was added to the Bill of Rights as a check on exactly this (though the Founders intended for it to be exercised through the States' militias, not the citizens directly, based on the text of the first half of the amendment).

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