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DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

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Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#271

Post by anentropic »

aniviacat wrote: post #239
anentropic wrote: post #204

This is not actually music. Music is a cultural practice, this is just organised sound. Maybe one day AIs will be able to participate in cultural practices like humans do, as sentient beings, but current generative AI models do not.

> That is not a water bottle, it's a domesticated puddle. Many (most?) people don't care about the artists behind songs (even less so about their culture). They care about the "organised sound" being enjoyable to hear. And to them, AI music is just as valuable as manual music. Gangam style didn't become popular because people cared about PSY. It didn't become popular because of its thoughtful lyrics and insightful me…

> It became popular because it sounds good.

That's a pre-requisite for becoming popular, but not why it became popular.

Just because many people don't know or understand anything about music doesn't mean music doesn't exist.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#272

Post by awongh »

Aldipower wrote: post #224
concats wrote: post #219

Trying to look at the bigger picture for a moment. A lot of the philosophical debate about art I see here, and elsewhere on social media, is often very shallow and can be reduced to: Does one believe that the value of the art-piece (be is music, paintings, film, or whatever) is created in the mind of the artist, or is it created in the mind of the consumer? If you believe only in the former, AI art is an oxymoron and…

Art is always some form of human interaction. When we talk about AI music, I think we do not talk about art anymore, so this isn't human interaction as this isn't art too. The creation of the AI itself, could be considered as art, but not the outcome of the AI. We have to be careful in our discussions not to mix the things up. A lot of confusion happens in recent discussion.

The thing is that in this century the creative interaction seems to be moving up the value chain- it wasn't long ago that people would say that being a DJ wasn't creative. Simply selecting songs wasn't creative. Now lots of people consider DJs to be creative artists that are communicating something with their human will of selecting and mixing tracks.

Unless the whole thing moves to a random AI generated slop stream app, whoever turns the knobs of the AI that creates the music will become the new "artist". Right now it doesn't seem like the AI creator "does" anything, but maybe future people will think that.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#273

Post by croes »

qwertox wrote: post #267
antononcube wrote: post #110

The creation of music by AI brings to mind a quote from David Bowie: “Music itself is going to become like running water or electricity. So take advantage of these last few years, because this will never happen again. Get ready for a lot of touring, because that's the only unique experience left.” While Bowie had different reasoning for making that statement, it's interesting to think that with AI-generated music, hi…

There are things which are just "musician things". An AI just can't replace it. Like the performance of "Hania Rani live at Invalides in Paris, France for Cercle" [0] This is what makes a musician. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5oZ80Daduc&t=2145s

That what most people don’t care about

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#274

Post by tasuki »

nsteel wrote: post #177
tmountain wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been writing software for 25 years and am “vibe coding” a fairly complex game in my spare time. It saves time on boilerplate but it is absolutely not capable of doing all the work. There’s still some assembly required and doing so requires domain knowledge and expertise. Also, prompting properly requires the same. If I were to compare the experience to building a house, I’m now the foreman—and no longer doing th…

The scary thing is while a construction labourer knows how to properly lay bricks, an AI's output is reliably unreliable. Does the foreman have to go round checking every little thing on the site? That would be a waste of time. Using these AI tools for anything important is too high risk.

There exist many problems for which it's easy to verify the inputs-outputs, but much harder to write the functions to convert the inputs into the outputs.

Just write an executable spec and have the AI generate the code that fulfills it. Where is the risk?

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#275

Post by margorczynski »

antononcube wrote: post #110

The creation of music by AI brings to mind a quote from David Bowie: “Music itself is going to become like running water or electricity. So take advantage of these last few years, because this will never happen again. Get ready for a lot of touring, because that's the only unique experience left.” While Bowie had different reasoning for making that statement, it's interesting to think that with AI-generated music, hi…

Actually from what I've heard from musicians is that digital made living just from music really hard. First it was piracy and now it is streaming, the days where an average whole band could live off playing and creating music are gone.

AI will be the nail to the coffin where it'll almost completely becomes a hobby.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#276

Post by EugeneOZ »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #162
antononcube wrote: post #110

The creation of music by AI brings to mind a quote from David Bowie: “Music itself is going to become like running water or electricity. So take advantage of these last few years, because this will never happen again. Get ready for a lot of touring, because that's the only unique experience left.” While Bowie had different reasoning for making that statement, it's interesting to think that with AI-generated music, hi…

The musicians of the 19th century were free to produce anything they liked. They were free to write a "Missa Solemnis" where the very silence is breathtaking, where one does not merely hear that God has died, but where one feels His rebirth. And what have they done? Have they produced in their liberty anything grander or more beautiful than the scrawling of the deaf composer? Have they summoned sounds more jubilant t…

"Starman" is much better than "Missa Solemnis". Due all my respect to Beethoven.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#277

Post by bondarchuk »

ipaddr wrote: post #21

The interest in ai music generation is lower than I initially thought. I jumped in but felt the exercise lacked the joy of making music physically or with software like pro tools. With pro tools you control the thousands of knobs which gives you more control. These AI models take away that connection. You can play around with different words to get different results but it's like painting with a shotgun. No one wants…

Back in the day nobody wanted to hear my FL Studio songs either. Not saying this as a joke, it's just that most people don't care about most people's amateur art from what I've seen.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#278

Post by thomastraum »

the biggest thread to music is the audience.

a machine doing any of this would be not causing a meltdown by musicians in the 80s. A punk rock band would not feel threatened by this neither would be Prince.

the sad truth is human output is so averaged out now, that most of it will be replaced.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#279

Post by awongh »

concats wrote: post #219

Trying to look at the bigger picture for a moment. A lot of the philosophical debate about art I see here, and elsewhere on social media, is often very shallow and can be reduced to: Does one believe that the value of the art-piece (be is music, paintings, film, or whatever) is created in the mind of the artist, or is it created in the mind of the consumer? If you believe only in the former, AI art is an oxymoron and…

In the age of the social feed things are currently tipped more towards the selector/curator/consumer, where before, when all you could do was listen to songs on the radio, it wasn't really possible to participate.

But culture will always be fundamentally about 1:many - we have to collectively agree on liking something- algo-based feeds are making the number of people that agree smaller and more siloed, but the dynamic is still the same.

In that sense I don't think truly 100% algorithmically created and promoted content could ever truly become cultural- at the very least humans will always ascribe some meaning or motive to it, e.g., when instagram launched AI generated accounts some people pointed their finger at Mark Zuckerberg, tracing something back to a human they could ultimately hold responsible.

Re: DeepMind releases Lyria 2 music generation model

#280

Post by thoroughburro »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #188
geden wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad how?

Bad in the sense that it is at it's core a denial that there exists something such as good, and even something such as bad — in almost every sense of the word, whether it be aesthetically or morally. The human race, according to religion, fell once, and in falling gained knowledge of good and of bad. Now we have fallen a second time, and not even that remains to us. One of the core contentions of the Christian faith,…

What an extraordinary take!
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