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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#271

Post by contrarian1234 »

UncleMeat wrote: post #259
contrarian1234 wrote: post #239

[flagged]

Francis was both things. Within the scope of the Catholic Church he was progressive. His speeches were often in opposition to rising nationalism. He spoke about inclusion for people who haven't traditionally been included by the Church. In comparison to Benedict he was much more friendly to the global left. But he was also a Catholic. The Church remains a global enemy to LGBT rights and its position on birth control…

Okay.. but outside of speeches and saying nice words, are the actual policies of Francis and Benedict different? Is the church run differently?

Nice words are important but popes are not just a friendly powerless old men after all

EDIT: Looking into the topic of homosexual clergy in the Catholic church. It seems things got worse in 2005 and there has been no change since then

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_clergy_in_the_Catho...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#272

Post by azan_ »

code_for_monkey wrote: post #220
d3ckard wrote: post #44

I think he will be mostly remembered as a terrible politician, first alienating conservatives with progressive policy and then alienating liberals with very questionable opinions on war in Ukraine. In the end, nobody was really happy with him. On the other hand, he definitely had a will and a spine to stick to his own opinions - I guess that counts for something.

[flagged]

> I dont know anyone whos mad at him over Ukraine either, thats extremely minor.

I know a lot of people that are mad at him over that, it's extremely major.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#274

Post by linsomniac »

CKMo wrote: post #45

I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.

"An athiest doesn't believe in 2,000 gods, a Christian doesn't believe in 1,999 gods." -- Ricky Gervais

Re: Pope Francis has died

#275

Post by [deleted] »

baxtr wrote: post #267
fleabitdev wrote: post #110

Last year, an interviewer asked Francis how he envisages hell. His response stayed with me: “It’s difficult to imagine it. What I would say is not a dogma of faith, but my personal thought: I like to think hell is empty; I hope it is.”

Interesting. Is this a way of saying I don’t believe there is a place like hell?

[deleted]

Re: Pope Francis has died

#276

Post by fforflo »

Aidevah wrote: post #263
fforflo wrote: post #153

In 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read: > This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “s…

Isn't Mytilene a city while the island itself is called Lesvos?

Technically yes, but they're used interchangeably nowdays. Plus, the official transcript mentions "Mytilene" so I wanted to follow that. Although I use Lesvos myself.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#277

Post by gambiting »

redeeman wrote: post #172
scrollop wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"telling Ukraine to "have the courage of the white flag"." Perhaps he should have told Russia to have the "courage" to stop murdering people.

do you think that would have even the slightest chance of changing anything?

John Paul II is widely credited with helping Poland overthrow communism. While he won't change the world overnight, there are millions of people even in Russia who respect the Roman Catholic pope, even if they aren't Roman Catholics themselves.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#278

Post by hsuduebc2 »

I'm curious how devout Catholics will perceive it when the leader of their Church dies on their holiest day, which commemorates the resurrection of Christ. Will they going to see it as a symbol, a sign, or perhaps some kind of deeper message?

Re: Pope Francis has died

#280

Post by gambiting »

gortok wrote: post #266
ralfd wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including rightfully limiting the Latin mass Why is that a political thing though? The mass of the roman church was for centuries (almost all it’s history?) in latin.

Indeed; and when the Second Vatican Council decided Mass should be said in the vernacular, the obligation of the Church was to follow. Instead, the conservatives of the church ('conservative' here means those that emphasize adhering to tradition and are adverse to change) created a rift by eschewing this change and even heightening the importance of the Latin Mass, creating the impression that a mass spoken in the lo…

There are still groups(at least I'm aware of them in Poland, I've met people who are part of them) who believe exactly this, that the second Vatican Sobor was a mistake and the "real" mass is only the one conducted in Latin.
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