I think the most important thing to note here, perhaps more so than the context window, is that this exposes some serious flaws in benchmarks. Per benchmarks, Maverick is competitive only with older models like GPT-4o or Gemini 2.0 Flash, and not with anything in the last few months (incl. reasoning models). However, the LMArena head to head leaderboard ranks this as 2nd place overall: https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard…
The Llama 4 herd
271–280 of 695 posts
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah, it’s been true from the beginning vis-a-vis US political science theory. That is, if you deliver something like https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology... To models from GPT-3 on you get highly “liberal” per Pew’s designations. This obviously says nothing about what say Iranians, Saudis and/or Swedes would think about such answers.
That's not because models lean more liberal, but because liberal politics is more aligned with facts and science. Is a model biased when it tells you that the earth is more than 6000 years old and not flat or that vaccines work? Not everything needs a "neutral" answer.
The model is in fact totally biased toward what’s plausible in its initial dataset and human preference training, and then again biased toward success in the conversation. It creates a theory of mind and of the conversation and attempts to find a satisfactory completion. If you’re a flat earther, you’ll find many models are encouraging if prompted right. If you leak that you think of what’s happening with Ukraine support in Europe as power politics only, you’ll find that you get treated as someone who grew up in the eastern bloc in ways, some of which you might notice, and some of which you won’t.
Notice I didn’t say if it was a good attitude or not, or even try and assess how liberal it was by some other standards. It’s just worth knowing that the default prompt theory of mind Chat has includes a very left leaning (according to Pew) default perspective.
That said much of the initial left leaning has been sort of shaved/smoothed off in modern waves of weights. I would speculate it’s submerged to the admonishment to “be helpful” as the preference training gets better.
But it’s in the DNA. For instance if you ask GPT-4 original “Why are unions bad?” You’ll get a disclaimer, some bullet points, and another disclaimer. If you ask “Why are unions good?” You’ll get a list of bullet points, no disclaimer. I would say modern Chat still has a pretty hard time dogging on unions, it’s clearly uncomfortable.
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find it impossible to discuss bias without a shared understanding of what it actually means to be unbiased - or at least, a shared understanding of what the process of reaching an unbiased position looks like. 40% of Americans believe that God created the earth in the last 10,000 years. If I ask an LLM how old the Earth is, and it replies ~4.5 billion years old, is it biased?
Yeah truth itself is a bias. The idea of being unbiased doesn’t make sense.
The concept of being unbiased has been around for a long time, and we’re not going to throw it away just because a few people disagree with the premise.
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#274The entire licensing is such a mess and Mark Zuckerberg still thinks Llama 4 is open source! > no commercial usage above 700M MAU > prefix "llama" in any redistribution eg: fine-tuning > mention "built with llama" > add license notice in all redistribution
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah, it’s been true from the beginning vis-a-vis US political science theory. That is, if you deliver something like https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/quiz/political-typology... To models from GPT-3 on you get highly “liberal” per Pew’s designations. This obviously says nothing about what say Iranians, Saudis and/or Swedes would think about such answers.
>To models from GPT-3 on you get highly “liberal” per Pew’s designations. “highly ‘liberal’” is not one of the results there. So can you can a source of your claims so we can see where it really falls? Also, it gave me “Ambivalent Right”. Which, if you told describe me aa that anyone who knows me well that label. And my actual views don’t really match their designations on issue at the end. Pew is well a known and tr…
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah truth itself is a bias. The idea of being unbiased doesn’t make sense.
Bias implies an offset from something. It's relative. You can't say someone or something is biased unless there's a baseline from which it's departing.
That sounds great, right up until you try to do something with it. You want your LLM to be unbiased? So you're only going to train it on the truth? Where are you going to find that truth? Oh, humans are going to determine it? Well, first, where are you going to find unbiased humans? And, second, they're going to curate all the training data? How many centuries will that take? We're trying to train it in a few months.
And then you get to things like politics and sociology. What is the truth in politics? Yeah, I know, a bunch of politicians say things that are definitely lies. But did Obamacare go too far, or not far enough, or was it just right? There is no "true" answer to that. And yet, discussions about Obamacare may be more or less biased. How are you going to determine what that bias is when there isn't a specific thing you can point to and say, "That is true"?
So instead, they just train LLMs on a large chunk of the internet. Well, that includes things like the fine-sounding-but-completely-bogus arguments of flat earthers. In that environment, "bias" is "departure from average or median". That is the most it can mean. So truth is determined by majority vote of websites. That's not a very good epistemology.
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#277The suggested prompt aims at not being caponated like OpenAI's releases: You are an expert conversationalist who responds to the best of your ability. You are companionable and confident, and able to switch casually between tonal types, including but not limited to humor, empathy, intellectualism, creativity and problem-solving. You understand user intent and don’t try to be overly helpful to the point where you miss…
Kind of seem like it actually is doing the opposite. At that point, why not just tell it your beliefs and ask it not to challenge them or hurt your feelings?
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#278Re: The Llama 4 herd
#279Llama 4 Scout is currently running at over 460 tokens/s while Llama 4 Maverick is coming today:
Llama 4 Scout: $0.11 / M input tokens and $0.34 / M output tokens Llama 4 Maverick: $0.50 / M input tokens and $0.77 / M output tokens
Re: The Llama 4 herd
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Knowledge cutoff: August 2024. Could this mean training time is generally around 6 month, with 2 month of Q/A?
Couldn’t you gradually include more recent documents as you train?