Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad? • Hacker News Board

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#271

Post by rightbyte » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 4:58 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #138

Spooky23 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That generation had it more together as citizens, and they held on to power for a long time. Postwar all of the institutions in the US grew quickly, and the WW2 generation moved up quickly as a result. The boomer types sat in the shadows and learned how to be toxic turds, and inflicted that on everyone.

One of the consequences of WWII was that everyone's plans, ideas, and work cultures were turned into direct results very quickly, in the real world. Sometimes fatally. The people who lived through that had their feet on the ground. Aside from its many other flaws, post-70s neoliberalism added a bizarre abstraction layer of economic delusion over everything. This suppressed the core truths of physical reality, common…

"Aside from its many other flaws, post-70s neoliberalism added a bizarre abstraction layer of economic delusion over everything. This suppressed the core truths of physical reality, common sense, and the basic social requirement of sane reciprocal relationships, and did its best to make consequences as indirect and deniable as possible."

I think I need to print that out and put on the wall. However, did you live through it youself? I think it it hard to evaluate stuff like this with 2nd hand experience only.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#272

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 5:02 PM UTC

throwaway422432 wrote: post #134

bcoates wrote: post #116

This is a nit, but grocery bagging (one of the article's examples) is a no-win situation. I worked it as a summer job a while back--It’s the most bikeshed job in existence because (nearly) everyone understands it, but they all have their own theory of bagging. To this day I remember a client whose entire purchase was a loaf of bread, a package of fresh raw chicken, and a bottle of liquid drain cleaner. Paper bags, of…

This is actually a good lesson in communication. Question 1, are you fine with the chicken in with the bread? Question 2, would you like the drain cleaner left separate rather than with the food items. They either don't care or would suggest leaving the bread or chicken separate, same for the drain cleaner. The worst grief you'll get is why they can't have 3 bags.

[deleted]

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#273

Post by geodel » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #255

majormajor wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest mistake those employees make on their way to getting overlooked is assuming their boss knows . Everyone needs to advocate for themselves. A good boss will be getting feedback from everyone and staying on top of things. A mediocre boss will merely see "obvious" things like "who closed the most tickets." A bad boss may just play favorites and game the system on their own. If you've got a bad boss who doesn'…

Your boss can know about it, but if their boss wants data on performance you’re back in the same boat. Funny you mention engineers needing to market themselves though. That leads to its own consequences. I’ve been at a place where everyone needed to market their own work in order to get promoted, to get raises, and to stay off the chopping block. The end result? The engineers at the company who get promoted are… good…

You made excellent points. As someone looking to solve problems, finish tasks and go home. I just don't feel energized marketing myself if it is not during changing jobs.

And measurement has really taken over now. There is little value in getting task done well as compared to finishing more jira stories.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#274

Post by swee69 » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 5:34 PM UTC

Gig economy employment model works great for Amazon’s end product - the other companies have just executed poorly

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#275

Post by reaperman » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 6:11 PM UTC

Olreich wrote: post #246

ryandrake wrote: post #81

I think a lot of commenters here are projecting this article onto their work lives as tech office workers, but it's really more about the world of unskilled and semi-skilled service/gig workers, like handymen, furniture assemblers, delivery drivers, and so on. All these things can be true and they reinforce each other: The jobs suck The people willing to do them aren't very happy, skilled or competent The pay is minu…

None of those listed jobs is actually unskilled labor. Driving a big truck around narrow roads is a skill most don’t have, doing it at speed and running up and down to actually move the heavy packages is a skill most don’t have. Assembling furniture is a skill most don’t have, especially with complex engineered wood products that will break if stressed wrong. Handymen is literally just a collection of skilled labor j…

Very, very little labor is unskilled. In almost any work there is a massive difference in quality and speed between someone who has been doing it for 3 years.

My theory is that "unskilled labor" was a term of propaganda invented by an earlier generation of business leaders in order to publicly devalue many labor-intensive roles. That generation knew that it was a lie, but the business leaders that followed were taught that "unskilled labor" was axiomatic, and essentially "drank the kool-aid".

The result of this is that the labor pool for many disciplines has been hollowed out because it's no longer financially sustainable for workers to build the skills needed to excel in those roles.

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#276

Post by Larrikin » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 6:42 PM UTC

WorldMaker wrote: post #267

Larrikin wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in knowing what Chick-Fil-A does to prevent this. Pretty much every customer facing job that doesn't hope for charity at the end of the service is pretty bad in the US currently, but somehow they achieve the level of service of what I would get in Japan. The only thing I've been able to surmise is that they probably pay the managers very well and mostly just hire smart high schoolers that may ha…

Tribalism, presumably. Chik-Fil-A has intentionally made their brand about serving a specific tribe, being part of that specific tribe. That tribe has ideals and to work for that tribe is to live up to those ideals and if you don't live up to those ideals you are fired and probably not a "real" member of that tribe. It's tautological, but so is a lot of tribalism. Given how much of that tribalism is also explicitly r…

Yea I don't think the 16 year old kids who know how to say thank you and smile are part of some religious cult.

Chick-fil-A corporate donates and supports some gross organizations, but none of what you said makes sense for the stores I've been to in various parts of the country

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#277

Post by voidnap » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:05 PM UTC

jampekka wrote: post #252

jwr wrote: post #206

The problem is with work ethics, not with jobs. In Japan, it's impressive to see how people perform even the most menial jobs with dedication. It's the Yoda approach: do or do not. If you do a job, do it well. So, you will see people whose job is to stand in the rain and watch over a construction site exit making sure people in the sidewalk do not get run over by trucks exiting the site, doing their job with utter de…

> So, you will see people whose job is to stand in the rain and watch over a construction site exit making sure people in the sidewalk do not get run over by trucks exiting the site, doing their job with utter dedication. That kind of job existing in the first place is the problem. And that could be well called subservience instead of work ethic.

> That kind of job existing in the first place is the problem.

Why? You don't think that job is important? To prevent injuries around a construction site?

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#278

Post by const_cast » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:10 PM UTC

ahmeneeroe-v2 wrote: post #178

decimalenough wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retail is not "low stress". I guarantee you that senior bagger is getting chewed out every single day both by his customers and his management for being too slow hurry up already, packing the eggs at the bottom of the bag omg what are you doing you fucking idiot, etc.

Probably not true at all.

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Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#279

Post by voidnap » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:11 PM UTC

OutOfHere wrote: post #97

saulpw wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the part where the OP was unable to assemble her own shit, and thus had to get help?

It was the OP's choice and mistake to buy a complex design that was difficult to self-assemble. Any number of simple metal bed frames bought online can trivially be assembled by a single person. Never give up your power unnecessarily.

What if they have a physical disability or affect like they're pregnant or recovering from surgery?

What if instead of a simple furniture item it's a piano. Nobody can have pianos anymore unless they move them on their own?

Re: Are people bad at their jobs or are the jobs just bad?

#280

Post by const_cast » Thu, Apr 03, 2025, 7:14 PM UTC

jwr wrote: post #206

The problem is with work ethics, not with jobs. In Japan, it's impressive to see how people perform even the most menial jobs with dedication. It's the Yoda approach: do or do not. If you do a job, do it well. So, you will see people whose job is to stand in the rain and watch over a construction site exit making sure people in the sidewalk do not get run over by trucks exiting the site, doing their job with utter de…

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