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Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#271

Post by BoingBoomTschak »

Lanolderen wrote: post #233
a-french-anon wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat slow compared to what, though? It didn't cost a fortune. A 2.0L MX-5 ND is the nearest modern equivalent and they should both do the 0-60 in ~6s. I mean, those two were never "performance cars" (though the S2000 should be rather good in the bends for a convertible), but this isn't slow nor quick in my books.

I'm talking strictly acceleration since the parent was about that. No dig at Miatas or S2000s for being light, cheap to run, fun cars but a dig at the comparison since it feels apples to oranges and a note on I guess the development of acceleration in the past years. 20 years ago when S2000s were the shit everyone was running 100hp shitboxes. Locally, one of the local car guys in the early 2000s became a legend with…

I don't think comparing it to used or modified cars is very fair. I understand what you mean, though, and yes, the S2000 isn't that impressive anymore. Still, its straight line acceleration is very respectable for what it cost at the time, even when adjusting for inflation and average power isn't the only thing that went up, weight did too.

What can you get that trounces it for the price? Even a Golf GTI doesn't do much better (and you can't even get it in manual anymore).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#272

Post by r00fus »

masklinn wrote: post #217
hedora wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: Our BMW i3 gets EPA range on my round trip commute in the summer. It starts at the top of a mountain with a “100%” (actually 90% according to reverse engineering) battery (a tesla couldn’t regen in that situation, the bmw can). It can be as low as 80% of EPA range with the heat pump cranked up in low 30F’s weather. I’ve carefully measured two other EVs (not Tesla) on that route. One gets 110% of EPA, bu…

> It starts at the top of a mountain with a “100%” (actually 90% according to reverse engineering) battery (a tesla couldn’t regen in that situation, the bmw can). Ah so BMW advertises (and charges to I assume?) 10% less capacity than actual, which both reduces wear and allows regen even on full battery? That's actually pretty cool. They're effectively sacrificing marketing for user experience.

My "compliance car" cheapo Ford Focus EV had about 5% over-provisioning. It realistically got its range estimate for the past 7 years except in winter which reduced the range about 20%. It's starting to lose range now on year 8.

Many non-Teslas are also over-provisioned (my 2nd EV is as well based on YT testing videos).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#273

Post by rurp »

ozim wrote: post #142
LeoPanthera wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold my Tesla after 4 years, because I refused to own it out of warranty. No longer being associated with Musk is a bonus. During the 4 years, it needed servicing (for actual faults, not for maintenance) 13 times. 4 of those times were "Car is dead" and it had to be towed. To book service, you have to use the app. There's no phone number. You pick a date which is usually at least a week in advance, type in what's w…

To be fair i don’t think there is a business where I can make an appointment in the same week. I have ICE and getting basic oil change must be week in advance even when I call, I never get “we can book you tomorrow”. Heck gettin haircut in my area they have calendars blocked so you have to plan with a week in advance. Super annoying as I have a simple cut and most of time it can be done in 15mins. Ok washing down cut…

You live in an extremely atypical place that doesn't generalize at all to the rest of the US. I've never lived in or visited an American city where I couldn't get something basic like an oil change or haircut with no notice. If one place is busy, go a half mile to the next place and they will probably have time for you. Is this post just a humble brag about how you live in Manhattan or some other expensive outlier location?

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#274

Post by tstrimple »

computerex wrote: post #150
ozim wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair i don’t think there is a business where I can make an appointment in the same week. I have ICE and getting basic oil change must be week in advance even when I call, I never get “we can book you tomorrow”. Heck gettin haircut in my area they have calendars blocked so you have to plan with a week in advance. Super annoying as I have a simple cut and most of time it can be done in 15mins. Ok washing down cut…

I am not sure where you live but in most of America you can get an ICE vehicle serviced in minutes. I always go through one of those express oil changes, usually they get me all setup 10 mins once I roll in, don’t even have to get out of the car.

Last time I went to one of those, they managed to overfill my oil by two full quarts and it was leaking oil while parked in my garage. I’m hesitant to go back. The auto shop I prefer, that has employees I trust, mostly does “real repairs” and is booked out months in advance. There are tire places around here that offer oil change services as well. They are typically booked out a week or so. I mostly change my own oil as a result and only have the shops do it when I have other work lined up as well.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#275

Post by [deleted] »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #109
londons_explore wrote: post #5

The article really focusses on range loss when cold, but as far as I can see that isn't really true. The reality is there is lots of range loss when using the cabin heater, which obviously one is most likely to do when cold. All modern Tesla's use heat pumps for cabin heating, which ~halves the range loss, but it's still substantial.

The article focuses on the censorship by "free speech" champions.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#276

Post by natch »

tonymet wrote: post #263
natch wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

270, wow. You could just ignore the estimate number, or go back to gas. My “tests” haha are more like 2,500 - 3,500 miles with almost ten of these under my belt and I’m a happy camper, and I don’t have to go slow but then I chose the brand with the good charging network, and I follow my formula and I own (and embrace) the extra burning of range because it’s my choice to drive hard. Aerodynamic drag increases with the…

and are you getting to the bottom 20% of the battery? The estimates at the top half of the battery seem phony

Absolutely getting to the bottom 20% when I'm doing it right ("right" == faster trip). That makes the charges faster at each stop. Also I find it more fun to stop every hour for 5-10 minutes than every 2 hours for 30-40 minutes. Of course at some stops with long stretches you have to stop for longer (looking at Kingman, AZ to Flagstaff, AZ until they add a charger at Seligman).

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#277

Post by prmoustache »

evandijk70 wrote: post #229
prmoustache wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Europe I think that EV vs !EV is almost certainly won For people living in single family homes or in appartments with dedicated parking space, yes. But lots of people are still living in apartments without a dedicated parking space. If you can't charge at home EV life is immediately a bit more compicated and expensive.

In the Netherlands, there is street charging everywhere. It is indeed a bit more expensive if you do not have a dedicated parking place, but not more complicated. By law, public charging has to be available in 'reasonable walking distance' from any EV owner. 'Reasonable walking distance' is defined by muncipalities, and tends to be higher in rural areas. Therefore it varies between a maximum of 150-500 meters dependi…

Netherlands is a rather rich country even by european standards.

Here where I live people sometimes struggle to park their car in a 2km radius from their home and there are like 4 public street charging outlets in a 4-5km radius. We might eventually get there but it will take a while.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#278

Post by mattbillenstein »

FireBeyond wrote: post #249
mattbillenstein wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that is crazy. I've come to think of cars, and maybe other big purchases, as you're purchasing a culture; the company that made it and will service it - it's why Toyota is so highly regarded. I own a 20yo Toyota Tacoma - and it's making more frequent shop visits now; and there are some good independent shops, but the Toyota guys really do a good job and over-communicate what's going on when they have your vehicl…

When my Audi is serviced, I actually get a video from the dealer made by the tech working on the car who walks around it and actually shows the issue, and talks about what they are doing for it.

Yeah, this is great and so easy to do with modern smart phones - Toyota sends a report with pictures which is pretty good too.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#279

Post by mattbillenstein »

sksrbWgbfK wrote: post #170
mattbillenstein wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that is crazy. I've come to think of cars, and maybe other big purchases, as you're purchasing a culture; the company that made it and will service it - it's why Toyota is so highly regarded. I own a 20yo Toyota Tacoma - and it's making more frequent shop visits now; and there are some good independent shops, but the Toyota guys really do a good job and over-communicate what's going on when they have your vehicl…

The first time I got a Toyota, I brought it for regular maintenance and they cleaned my car at the end. I was shocked because I never experienced this before, but the technician told me it was free and standard procedure. At least they understood that if you see clean cars around you when you drive, you're more likely to buy the brand later, and keep happy clients.

When they've kept my car, they've usually given me a ride or got me an uber home which was unexpected, but a nice touch.

Re: Tesla created secret team to suppress driving range complaints (2023)

#280

Post by ajross »

DSMan195276 wrote: post #82
ajross wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where's the sacrifice? Just charge it to 100% before you leave for a 200+ mile trip, there's even a setting in your app to make that happen automatically (it'll start charging at e.g. 2am or whatever is needed for your departure time). Did you gas up your car every time you drove back from work? No, right? So why complain that the car doesn't sit at 100% all the time in your garage? Seems like a silly complaint to me…

The difference is that I can fill my gas tank to 100% in a few minutes almost anywhere, no planning is necessary.

On the other hand, you don't have a gas pump in your garage, do you? Absolutely unbelievable we're still having these FUD arguments in 2025. EV's spend objectively far, far less of the driver's time fueling themselves for around-town driving, and it's not even close.
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