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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But it looks much more like Russia dividing and conquering the USA from the rest of the democratic, human rights supporting West. Yes, the famous human rights where people get visited by the cops for a Facebook post or an offensive tweet like in the UK. Also, regarding the UK who just recently forced Apple to remove it's EtoE encryption because it wants access to all the data of it's citizens violating the fundamen…

That's a lot of what-about-ism .. Of course we can and should criticize other countries, but here it's just a distraction. Do you really think the UK is as bad or worse then Russia? Because if not, what the fuck is your point?

> That's a lot of what-about-ism

No those are facts. Simple as that. What is your contention exactly with what I said?

> what the fuck is your point?

Why the aggressiveness? We are all here to have a peaceful conversation. You may disagree with me and that is fine but we don't have to get at each other's throat.

> Do you really think the UK is as bad or worse then Russia?

You must have missed part of my comment if you are asking this question.

> Russia is bad, terrible even

That's from my comment.

> Of course we can and should criticize other countries

Exactly my point. I am criticizing all the countries that infringe on human rights and that includes Russia and the UK an whoever else engages in these sorts of things.

My point was that simply asserting that the West respects human rights when we know that that is not always the case is the like the pot calling the kettle black.

You can go and give lessons of democracy and human rights when you stop detaining your own citizens for arbitrary reasons and without cause and without having the right to be represented by a lawyer.

Now, if you think that this is perfectly acceptable in a democracy, then I guess we don't have the same concept of human rights then.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t think Norwegians will hesitate to give trump the peace price if he does what he does?

I didn't say that. I said their border with Russia doesn't influence that decision.

But why wouldn’t it? It seems sensible that Norwegians are more concerned with Russian aggression than the average westerner, so they would also disapprove more of trump, no?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#273
post #51
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Budapest Memorandum USA promised not to attack Ukraine if it gives back Russian nukes to Russia. They kept the promise. In the same memorandum Russia promised the same thing. They broke the promise. Repeatedly. Nonetheless, I agree that more countries should develop their own nukes. Especially the ones like Poland, Baltics and Nordics. Not because it's a good thing to do, but because the world is what it is.

The memorandum also said they would provide assistance, they are not keeping that promise.

I've searched the text of the Memorandum[0] for that promise and couldn't find it there. Can you help?

[0] https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%203007/P...

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#275

It seems like Ukraine is insisting on a “security guarantee.” Can someone explain how the U.S. providing a security guarantee wouldn’t increase the risk of american boots on the ground in Ukraine?

They just want the US to keep their word on promises already made. Is that so unreasonable? They gave up their nukes for it.

You’re saying we already gave them the equivalent of NATO Article 5?

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#276

It seems like Ukraine is insisting on a “security guarantee.” Can someone explain how the U.S. providing a security guarantee wouldn’t increase the risk of american boots on the ground in Ukraine?

An actual lasting peace deal requires some sort of security guarantee, else it's not really a "peace deal", but rather something more like a capitulation. If US political leadership didn't have at least some solution for security in mind to begin with, then they wouldn't have been negotiating in good faith.

That said, Security Guarantees don't necessarily directly mean boots on the ground, certainly not straight away.

It could mean a deterrence framework where there a clear commitments that certain actions would mean certain responses, which itself reduces the chance those responses are necessary. Security guarantees can specify escalating measures before reaching an actual troop deployment. And European nations have already promised to provide the initial boots on the ground, though they really would like an American backstop.

The deterrence aspect is crucial - formal security frameworks often prevent conflict precisely because they make aggression too costly, reducing the likelihood they'd ever need to be activated.

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are bigger and stronger - you are right, do whatever you want, international laws and rules do not matter any more Rules never mattered in history. it's always up to strongest to impose their version of "fairness".

It's not always the biggest and strongest. Sometimes it's the many. Rules matter as long as they are enforced. It's only when enforcement is asymmetrical that problems begin.

As a matter of fact, strongest has the capacity to enforce rules. My statement still stands

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#278
post #112

The USA stands in miserable disgrace.

Amazing to see Russia win the Cold War—one we didn’t even know we were in. Their propaganda network is so strong that it took 3 weeks to go from “Russia is the enemy” to “eh, we have other problems” amongst the folks who…subscribe accordingly. Absolute masterclass in projecting power in the digital age.

US spends trillion in vietname,iraq,afghan etc while people can't afford housing,healthcare and living paycheck to paycheck

its hard to care for other people when your basic needs is not fullfill

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#279
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to sell this as the USA dividing and conquering Russia and China against each other. But it looks much more like Russia dividing and conquering the USA from the rest of the democratic, human rights supporting West.

> But it looks much more like Russia dividing and conquering the USA from the rest of the democratic, human rights supporting West. Yes, the famous human rights where people get visited by the cops for a Facebook post or an offensive tweet like in the UK. Also, regarding the UK who just recently forced Apple to remove it's EtoE encryption because it wants access to all the data of it's citizens violating the fundamen…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Act

Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it increases the risk - it's the whole point of the ask.

Why is nobody being open about that? Because I suspect the appetite for that is low. Germany is about closer to Russia than we are—how many Germans are willing to go die in Ukraine?

A recent poll suggests Germans are currently marginally in favor of sending peacekeepers.

The point of a peacekeeping mission is -of course- to prevent further war by means of deterrence (though there's always still a small risk, of course), so hopefully no one goes to die there.

Currently Germany just had elections, so a clear unified statement from the new-government-in-formation is not yet available.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/thin-majority-germans-b...

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