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GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

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Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#271

Post by dghlsakjg »

loeg wrote: post #235
dghlsakjg wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because they extract massive profits from the US market does not mean that they would stop operating if they only extracted healthy profits.

They would continue operating but fund less speculative drug development.

Maybe.

Personally, I think that they would cut other cost centers before they cut the only department that ensures their long term success

The industry could save tens or of billions per year by not advertising (this is a US thing, drug ads are nonexistent in many places), and eliminating pricing games, cost rebate programs, coupons, drug reps, etc. These are all significant costs and friction that don’t exist in most other countries.

My personal feeling is that claiming that the worlds least cost efficient healthcare system with many layers of added complexity is the driver behind pharmaceutical budgets is marginal.

And of course you have to consider that a significant portion of drug research costs are paid by government and other institutional grants

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#272

Post by lm28469 »

cm2187 wrote: post #10
codr7 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more worried about longer term side effects. This sounds a lot like numbing "bad" feelings to me; there's no way to selectively numb, it's all or nothing. Impulsivity isn't all bad.

As opposed to the good long term effects of being obese?

I personally can't believe humanity is in such a state of decay that the two options allowed to be discussed are "50% of the population is morbidly obese, has 0 impulse control and will literally eat themselves to the grave" and "ozempic for life for 50% of the population"

Are we just a bunch of NPCs waiting for the orders? One day it's McDonald's selling you the disease the next it's Novo Nordisk selling you the cure, and you apparently have to clap at that "miracle"?

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#273

Post by creer »

We keep hearing this kind of "reasoning"

> 8.5 million jobs at risk

And it's a problem: 8.5 million working diligently to make the world less efficient, less healthy - generally less up-to-speed - is NOT a good thing. It's not something to long for. It's not something to protect through ... what? forced impulse buying? or other subsidies. It's something to change urgently - or at least get ready for. (And some of the businesses mentioned do think about it.)

Still it would be nice if society - in particular the US - put some effort into succeding at these transitions. These transitions do not need to be "one day you have a job, the next you don't and good luck". For one thing these transitions are never sudden - they have 5-10 years thereabout. For another there are options, "illegal to fire" (France, insane), "work or train" (Denmark is it?, admirable idea), "ease of starting and running new businesses" (various countries, the US not in the lead). By contrast, we regularly see indefinite term subsidies, and minimal education / training planning.

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#274

Post by ragazzina »

crazygringo wrote: post #225
cj wrote: post #19

I started Tirzepatide 3-4 weeks ago. (Mostly as an experiment to understand the hype around GLP's... I don't have diabetes and only very slightly overweight at 20% body fat). Even at the lowest 2.5mg starter dose which you're only allowed to stay on for 1 month: - Extreme appetite suppression to the point where I've started calorie counting specifically to make sure that I'm eating enough. It's incredibly easy to for…

I'm curious -- do you have any brain fog? Are you able to exercise? When you exercise, do you wind up eating more, i.e. the caloric amount that you exercised? I've never had any psychological difficulty with losing weight. I don't care if I'm hungry. But what happens when I eat less and lose weight is that I have trouble concentrating. The glucose my brain needs just isn't there. And if I do physical activity, forget…

> But what happens when I eat less and lose weight is that I have trouble concentrating. The glucose my brain needs just isn't there.

This is crazy, I have the completely opposite effect. On keto + calorie restriction I feel much more alert and sharp.

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#275

Post by crazygringo »

op00to wrote: post #262
crazygringo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any idea of how many calories you eat per day? I get so confused because the small amounts of food that people talk about eating on GLP, don't seem like enough to sustain themselves long-term. Are they exaggerating? Or do they talk about not eating dinner, but that's because they had 1,700 calorie lunch at the burger place? Or is that just during weight loss, and then once a target weight is hit, they're…

Yes, I calorie track around 1900 calories average. Maybe up to 2000? They are probably losing muscle mass!

Oh, OK. So depending on your height, that sounds fine.

So you're still eating plenty, but the point is that you no longer have any desire to over-eat?

And so at a restaurant you still order and eat, but the food just doesn't mean "enjoyment" the way it used to?

That makes a lot more sense then. If food becomes more about removing a negative feeling of discomfort, than a positive feeling of deliciousness, right then overeating would never make any sense.

Thanks!

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#276

Post by no_wizard »

cj wrote: post #19

I started Tirzepatide 3-4 weeks ago. (Mostly as an experiment to understand the hype around GLP's... I don't have diabetes and only very slightly overweight at 20% body fat). Even at the lowest 2.5mg starter dose which you're only allowed to stay on for 1 month: - Extreme appetite suppression to the point where I've started calorie counting specifically to make sure that I'm eating enough. It's incredibly easy to for…

I’m not going to lie all this sounds like heaven to me.

I absolutely hate the way my appetite works. I have a genuine dysfunction with food. It goes back as far as I can remember. My cravings never stop, even after being satiated. It’s an endless cycle of weight gain then loss then gain as my willpower fluctuates for a variety of reasons.

My insurance only recently started to cover these weight loss drugs, and I have been looking into them over the last month because I think I’m an ideal candidate for it.

If it gives this kind of control over cravings and appetite I’m really looking forward to how this can genuinely make my life better

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#277

Post by lm28469 »

cedws wrote: post #167
GZGavinZhao wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apologies, I've updated to clarify that my comment is under the assumption that the host is not already under a non-natural influence or medical condition. For example, in the case if there is a medicine that would help drug addicts with their addiction I would be 100% for it.

Even so. Food can evoke the same neurochemical response as hard drugs or sex for some people. It is even more readily available than either of those things, and it is advertised and produced by multinational conglomerates with huge advertising budgets. They have the resources to maximise the attractiveness of their products and optimise the way they taste to be as pleasurable to eat as possible. Usually that means fi…

I have the same reasoning but the opposite conclusion, we should seriously reconsider our lifestyle choices, as a society, instead of just throwing a magic pill in the mix and closing our eyes on the fact that we're building a completely insane system in which humans are everything but thriving

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#278

Post by crazygringo »

lm28469 wrote: post #258
crazygringo wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Big food corporations profit from ultra-processed foods that manipulate our natural systems. I've just never bought this. Does grandma manipulate you when she adds sugar to her cherry pie? Does she manipulate you when she adds salt to her mashed potatoes? Foods -- "ultra-processed" or not -- don't "manipulate" you. They literally just either taste better or taste worse. Grandma, and her grandma before her, used sug…

No matter how I look at it 60g of sugar in small bottle of coke is criminal. My wife bakes cakes for 10 people with less added sugar. Junk food definitely is designed to abuse our natural instincts and needs, from packaging to ingredients. Go one year without processed food, you won't physically be able to drink coke or eat fastfood

> No matter how I look at it 60g of sugar in small bottle of coke is criminal.

I hate to tell you how much sugar grandma put in her lemonade, and in her sweet tea...

> My wife bakes cakes for 10 people with less added sugar.

That's extremely unusual. Different types of cakes take different amounts of sugar, but it's generally somewhere between 150g and 300g for an average-sized cake that might give 10 slices. That's between 3/4 and 1.5 cups of sugar. And that's without frosting or anything extra.

A cake with less than 60 grams of sugar... I don't even know what you'd call that. I mean, you'd never make a sponge cake or chocolate cake with such little sugar. It wouldn't even taste like cake. It would be more like a slightly sweet... bread?

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#279

Post by no_wizard »

valunord wrote: post #254
cj wrote: post #19

I started Tirzepatide 3-4 weeks ago. (Mostly as an experiment to understand the hype around GLP's... I don't have diabetes and only very slightly overweight at 20% body fat). Even at the lowest 2.5mg starter dose which you're only allowed to stay on for 1 month: - Extreme appetite suppression to the point where I've started calorie counting specifically to make sure that I'm eating enough. It's incredibly easy to for…

Thanks for experimenting with your body. I'll be sure to check back in about ten years to see how all this shakes out. Keto + intermittent fasting are my magic pill right now and have been for some years.

Ozempic has been in use for diabetic patients for at least a decade if you want to look at the research of its long term results in that population - which is fairly large to constitute a good sample sizing.

Re: GLP-1 drugs: An economic disruptor? (2024)

#280

Post by ragazzina »

crazygringo wrote: post #229
submeta wrote: post #118

Big food corporations profit from ultra-processed foods that manipulate our natural systems. They design products that override satiety signals using calculated combinations of sugar, fat and salt to activate brain dopamine pathways. Their priority is profit growth, not consumer health. The consequences are significant health issues like obesity, diabetes and cardiovascular diseases. Healthcare systems struggle with…

> Big food corporations profit from ultra-processed foods that manipulate our natural systems. I've just never bought this. Does grandma manipulate you when she adds sugar to her cherry pie? Does she manipulate you when she adds salt to her mashed potatoes? Foods -- "ultra-processed" or not -- don't "manipulate" you. They literally just either taste better or taste worse. Grandma, and her grandma before her, used sug…

> Does grandma manipulate you when she adds sugar to her cherry pie?

Manipulation implies a purpose, so I’d say no. Does grandma have an ulterior motive? She adds sugar to express herself through the art of baking or does she need a favor?

> I mean, is a fig tree "manipulating" you when its figs ripen with sugar so they'll be eaten?

..Yes?

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