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What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip reports

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Re: What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip reports

#271
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice how you had a profound inner experience that you realized was meaningless How did you handle meaning after that?

> How did you handle meaning after that? Meaning is real and very important but so is the craving for it and it's a good thing. Like the craving for love/object of love? I've had dreams in my teenage years about an ex loving me back and I can still remember how happy I was and a bit hurt when I woke up. The deep realisations, euphoria and profound happiness -- these are not something the human brain can experience ev…

>ALL of us can find it in the "mundane" and if you find it there you'll find that it won't be garbage

Because you will have calibrated you mind to perceive those particular things as meaningful! And then (to paraphrase another poster) you've failed the test, hehe.

Of course, there is no actual "test". Regardless, next one is scheduled in a generation's time. Ganbatte kudasai to the next class of test-takers!

Hallucinogens demonstrate that even the experience of "meaning" can be intentionally induced or suppressed by direct chemical action on the brain. Which realization was expected to "enlighten" people en masse at some point, and I guess in some ways it did. I'd expect taking a pure "meaning potion" would either make people addicted, or make them infuse the outside world with novel meanings, but I ain't seeing that much of either going on.

"Meaning" is just referentiality. Thing A means thing B; these squiggles mean "no swimming"; this stack pointer means that struct over there on the heap, etc. "Meaningfulness" (banned word, hehe) is an abstract quality which you attribute to things whose meaning you've successfully parsed - usually when you parse them for the first time, and you go like, "oh, so now I see what this means (to me)!"

One of my favorite musicians has a pretty dark song about some teenage hoodlums committing a grisly murder over drugs... its exposition just so happens to contain the line, "and LSD to make it mean more than it meant", which I think is the most succinct description of it.

That is to say, "meaningful" itself is a quale, an atom of pure experience that has no identified physical counterpart (though it surely must have one, if it can be induced chemically?) So, just like the means to induce visual experiences is called a display, and the means of inducing sonic ones is called a loudspeaker, the means of inducing abstract mental experiences is... illegal. Huh! :o

Re: What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip reports

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you at any point in the story stared at the lamp, and someone called to you…. And you had a wife and child?

I did know a guy who claimed to have lived years of family life with a wife and kids once on DMT. I doubt it was actually years but it probably felt like it and it did fuck him up a bit. He had to mourn the loss of the perfect family life he'd gotten used to. He knew all of their names and favorite foods and sports and colors and what happened at school and first kiss and pregnancy announcement and wedding and stuff.…

The biggest thing that DMT taught me is that time is an illusion, created by our minds as part of the construct that allows us to exist and focus on survival. This is true for all life that experiences an internal chronology, but as humans we can only know how this applies to humans. Sorry, time travel hopefuls :)

DMT also taught me that our perception is our reality, and that we cannot actually perceive "objective" reality in any form. It helped me understand my mother, who we believe was suffering from Alzheimer's or dementia (she was never able to be diagnosed before physical health issues became the primary concern). She would tell me about these stories of traveling to write movies or novels. Prior to my DMT experience, I would respond like many would, "oh but you never left the bed! you've been here the whole time!" in the gentlest way possible. After my DMT experience, I would sit with her and ask her about them. She was never able to go into quite as deep detail as the person you are talking about, but from that point, I truly believed that, in her perception, in her reality, she did very much indeed travel to write movies and novels. Or at the very least, I believe that is how her brain interpreted what the DMT was presenting her.

I believe DMT is ultimately the "guide" for death. It doesn't cause or induce death, but our brains release it in response to death. And sometimes, like all biological machines, it happens at the wrong time. Sometimes before, and sometimes maybe the brain misses the signals and is unable to secrete DMT at the appropriate time, for whatever reason. I believe dementia is merely the early natural introduction of DMT into the brain. I guess I'll find out when I feel what it feels like if I end up suffering dementia.

There's a lot of "belief" here, sure. Some may even go so far as to call it "woo". But DMT gave me this profound understanding at a deeply visceral level. This even took some time to realize upon lengthy reflection on the experience and what it took me through, with surprisingly strong remnant memories of the visuals of being forced through a "time loop" where my eyes were sort of "dragged" along the very path I'd looked around the room in the early part of the trip. We do scientifically know our brain will sometimes "rewind" to fill in gaps in our vision (think of the classic example of looking at a clock with a second hand and the first second kind of seems to linger, that's our brain rewinding and lying to us about what we were seeing in that moment, using all available information once our eyes stabilize).

Re: What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip reports

#273
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. How has it influenced your life, do you think?

Very creative, and spiritual. At first I was making bank, almost $190k a year, but now I am homeless living in a minivan. I am free however, more free than some of the richest people I know, which I think is the best outcome. It made me realize that most people do not like creative people because we do not reactivity prop up their paradigms.

Awesome. What are you doing for creativity these days?

Re: What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip reports

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Salvia was the most profound experience I’ve had from a drug. I got to witness a reboot and POST of myself, with discrete functions coming back online in stages. Nothing has been like that before or sense. Twice was enough. I learned something from it but it wasn’t fun and that lesson need not be repeated.

During your "reboot," which parts of you did you decide to let go of / "change"? I agree that the intensity / experience was enough to only try a few times (3x myself).

None. Salvia, at least in my experience, doesn't really have the executive function operating until very late in the process.

Re: What do people see when they're tripping? Analyzing Erowid's trip reports

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microdosing (or rather 1/4-1/10th a normal dose) works quite well. You get much of the mental flexibility without serious disorientation and serious physical reaction (jitteriness and nausea, which is also why I avoid shrooms—too physical). It's also worth noting LSD is quite pleasant on the come down. You're just very comfortable and calm. Typically self-soothing through the angst of the first half of the trip is st…

> (jitteriness and nausea, which is also why I avoid shrooms—too physical Try psilacetin. It is shrooms without the shroom matter, meaning there is no nausea at all.

It's not only the chitin that causes nausea/cramping/stomach upset. It's also the binding of the triptamine of your choice that you just flooded your body with to the many serotonin receptors in your gut. Techniques like lemon-tek or other filtering methods to remove chitin can help at reducing nausea, but it's only one factor.
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