Live data from Hacker News

5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

spectrum.ieee.org

271–280 of 376 posts

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#271
post #77

> Of course, sophisticated representations of entire 3D scenes for large groups of users interacting with one another in-world could conceivably push bandwidth requirements up. But at this point, we’re getting into Matrix-like imagined technologies without any solid evidence to suggest a good 4G or 5G connection wouldn’t meet the tech’s bandwidth demands. Open-world games such as Cyberpunk 2077 already have hours-lon…

How many people consuming these services are doing so over a mobile network? For my area all the mobile network home internet options offer plenty of speed, but the bandwidth limitations are a dealbreaker. Everyone I know still uses their cable/FTTH as their main internet, and mobile network as a hotspot if their main ISP goes down.

Right now - not many. But at some point in the future, if metaverse is everywhere, you can pull out a phone and a combined data for the room you are in might be 100GB. Would we want to have 6G then?

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#272
post #77

> Of course, sophisticated representations of entire 3D scenes for large groups of users interacting with one another in-world could conceivably push bandwidth requirements up. But at this point, we’re getting into Matrix-like imagined technologies without any solid evidence to suggest a good 4G or 5G connection wouldn’t meet the tech’s bandwidth demands. Open-world games such as Cyberpunk 2077 already have hours-lon…

On my current mobile plan (Google Fi[0]) the kind of streaming 3D world they think I would want to download on my phone would get me throttled in less than a minute. 200 MB is about a day's usage, if I'm out and about burning through my data plan. The reason why there isn't as much demand for mobile data as they want is because the carriers have horrendously overpriced it, because they want a business model where the…

So true. I remember the first time I got access to 5G was on a short visit to Dubai. I got a sim card with ~20GB of traffic and was super excited to try speedtest. My brother told me not to do that because 5G is so fast that if speedtest doesn't limit the traffic size for the test it will consume all of it within 30 seconds the test runs. Guess what? I didn't run the test because I didn't want to pay another $50 for the data package. If I have 1Gbit connection even with 100G. What's the point? I'm still kind of on 4G if I want 100G to last me a month...

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#273
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this "good enough" argument. We never really needed anything we use daily today. Life was "good enough" 100 years ago (if you could afford it), should we have stopped? 4K video reaches you only because it's compressed to crap. It's "good enough" until it's not. 360p TV was good enough at some point too.

> 4K video reaches you only because it's compressed to crap. Yes, but I assume when they say the "consumer" they mean everyone not us. Most people i've had in my home couldnt tell you the difference between a 4K bluray at 2 odd meters on a 65" panel vs 1080p. I can be looking at a screen full of compression artificts that seem like the most obvious thing i've ever seen and ill be surrounded by people going "what are…

You can't ask someone today to see what they're not used to see.

I expect a future of screens that are natively subtly 3D and where you could see someone's nose hair without focusing. Only then they will notice "why do they look blurry and flat" when comparing it to an old TV.

Today if you get closer to a TV you will see blur. Tomorrow you will see the bird's individual strands of feathers.

"Good enough" is temporary.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#274
post #119

There is not a single 5G provider with unlimited high-speed access. Not one. Perhaps this has something to do with limited mobile bandwidth? Now imagine we add more bandwidth: what would happen to Comcast and other fiber monopolists if people started replacing fiber with 5G?

Three UK has unlimited 5G data plans.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#275
The problem I find is with the backhaul rather than the 5G signal. I can still get unreliable internet with a strong 5G signal. Even today I find for general internet browsing is good 3G is OK and can even support a video stream. My understanding is that 4G/5G allow for better network design and the faster headline speeds are just a positive for marketing as much as anything else.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#276
post #50
post #18

I got a 5G capable phone a few months back, and I can't say I've noticed a difference from my old one. (Aside from the new phone being more expensive, worse UI, slower, heavier, unwieldy, filled with ads, and constantly prompting me to create a "Samsung account".)

It spies on you a lot more effectively :) https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-... https://venturebeat.com/mobile/sk-telecom-will-use-5g-to-bui... https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--wha...

The UE could decide not to participate: https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy...

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what he said, they want you to pay for business accounts.

Yup, I’m saying it’s not a rural issue to have bad upload, often it’s just a way to charge more money even in a major US city (particularly one with limited ISP competition) In San Francisco monkeybrains is the best ISP I’ve ever used to date; symmetric up/down, great ping and cheaper than any other provider

I am also a quite happy Monkeybrains customer, and have been for a couple of years now.

For any folks who are using cable internet, or shitty DSL, I strongly recommend checking to see if Monkeybrains serves your home. If you have symmetric fiber, or are happy with Webpass, then it might not make sense to switch.

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#278
For VoIP applications, one-way mouth-to-ear delay should ideally be less than 150 ms for natural conversations [1].

Other factors, such as jitter, transmission delay, queuing delay, etc., also impact quality. However, if the delay occurs mid-transmission (e.g., due to network congestion or routing inefficiencies), there’s little that can be done beyond optimizing at the endpoints.

[1] https://www.wikiwand.com/en/articles/Latency_(audio)#Telepho...

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#279
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It spies on you a lot more effectively :) https://www.fastcompany.com/90314058/5g-means-youll-have-to-... https://venturebeat.com/mobile/sk-telecom-will-use-5g-to-bui... https://www.ericsson.com/en/blog/2020/12/5g-positioning--wha...

The UE could decide not to participate: https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy...

That's completely a false sense of security with 5G systems, because the way it achieves that high bandwidth is by literally “steering the beam” to follow you, i.e. precise location surveillance is an implicit part of using it: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13390

“The initial access period includes the transmission of beamformed SSBs that provide the UEs with a basic synchronization signal and demodulation reference signals. This allows for UEs to save power by going inactive and rejoining the network at a later initial access period. At the physical layer, the UE will receive the SSBs from a single antenna or using one or more spatial filters, such as a multi-panel handset used to overcome hand blockage. The UE will use the received SSB for synchronization and determining the control information. The beam reporting stage includes one or more possible SSB CSI reports which are transmitted in the random access channel. The report includes information for the strongest serving cell and may include a set of the next strongest cells within the same band to assist with load balancing. The number of reported additional cells depends on the carrier frequency, the previous state of the UE in the net- work, and the bands being monitored. In a newly-active state, the UE reports the top 6–16 additional cells across each active frequency range. This reporting helps to manage handover and mitigate cell-edge interference. In the final steps, the UE has connected to a serving cell and is ready to start receiving data. Further beam refinement and channel estimation can occur by transmitting reference signals with more precise beams. Although not specified in the standard, a typical CSI-RS would cover smaller portions of the reported SSBs’ directions or combine coherently across a multipath channel. Using more directional or precise beams can increase the SNR–thereby improving the channel estimates and beam alignment. Beam refinement can also be used to adjust the beamforming slightly to track highly mobile UEs.”

Your linked article even agrees: “Carriers can still see which cell towers your device connects to, use the strength and angle of your device’s signal to the tower, and then look up your device’s unique cellular identifier to determine your general location. Your location may never be private when you’re connected to a cellular network”

Fun fact: modern Wi-Fi standards do this too and it's possible to use the backscattered emissions to see through your walls lol https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/security/a425750...

Re: 5G networks meet consumer needs as mobile data growth slows

#280
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UE could decide not to participate: https://www.androidauthority.com/android-15-location-privacy...

That's completely a false sense of security with 5G systems, because the way it achieves that high bandwidth is by literally “steering the beam” to follow you, i.e. precise location surveillance is an implicit part of using it: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2301.13390 “The initial access period includes the transmission of beamformed SSBs that provide the UEs with a basic synchronization signal and demodulation reference sig…

Sure but you linked articles about the 5G positioning system which the UE could choose not to participate to.
Post reply on HN