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Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

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Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#271

Post by drivebyhooting »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259
programmertote wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

For nearly a century Europe incinerated itself twice over.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#272

Post by ggm »

thehappypm wrote: post #258
enragedcacti wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah definitely unfortunate. That said, I'm guessing the overall cost of overseas packaging is really tiny, otherwise Intel would've made a great customer since they are already packaging TSMC N6, N5, and N3 in New Mexico for their Arrow Lake CPUs.

It basically rounds down to $0 if you’re willing for it to be slow. A single shipping container can fit millions of chips

This is not adversarial thinking. Ukraine would be delighted to hit one container with all Russia's advanced chips going to e.g. Vietnam or China to be packaged and sent back.

This is a massive supply chain weakness and presumably will be addressed as soon as possible.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#273

Post by PittleyDunkin »

digdigdag wrote: post #35

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

> - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability.

This seems to be a much more achievable barrier to work around than not having a fab.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#274

Post by PittleyDunkin »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259
programmertote wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

> That is no longer the case.

For all I shit relentlessly on this country and its culture, it's still an extremely attractive place to live if you're well-situated to make money. (Most people are not—hence my contempt for how the society functions. This presumably DOES apply to an "Einstein", if indeed this Einstein wants money.) China still has a way to go in catering to and granting citizenship (or some amenable equivalent) to foreigners.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#275

Post by bnetd »

ecshafer wrote: post #213
programmertote wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

Everyone I know that was in EE falls into two camps basically: 1. Became web developers 2. Work in Defense or some other regulated industry that has protections from being outsourced to China

Is there a somber write-up anywhere as to the future of EE in the West?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#276

Post by tehjoker »

bluGill wrote: post #89
whamlastxmas wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that definition, war is extremely productive

At least a few evil people attack once in a while thus proving some defense is needed so they they are not completely unproductive/useless. Much as I wish they were not needed.

what evil ppl? what attack?

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#277

Post by kombine »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #263

I like the idea of made in America and bringing manufacturing self sufficiency to the US. But I don’t like the idea of reducing dependency on Taiwan, which makes it so that the world may ignore their plight in face of increasing aggression from China. The CCP is an authoritarian dictatorial government that seeks illegitimate control over Hong Kong, Taiwan, Tibet, Xinjiang, and other areas. They need to be stopped and…

The world will will not be able to help with their plight, just as it was not with Ukraine and more recently Palestine. Might as well secure the supply chain.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#278

Post by tombert »

bun_at_work wrote: post #267
tombert wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think America can't compete with China, for example, over the long term? Not saying I necessarily disagree with you, but just to give an example, the US has considerably better labor practices and labor laws than China. It's not perfect but there are protections about making sure people are paid what they're owed, how much you are allowed to work someone, safety protocols, etc. All of those things could,…

Just calling out that worker protections and increased labor costs seem to be the result of workers making more money. As the work force becomes wealthier, they _need_ less money, and their standards rise. This means their labor becomes more expensive and they demand safer workplaces. They demand more time off. This happened in the USA and is currently happening in China and other low-labor-cost nations. I think the…

Sure, but it's worth inquiring why the jobs left in the first place.

There's probably a few hundred reasons, but I think the core one was "manufacturing in China is cheaper because labor is cheaper."

Even if China starts demanding better worker protection (and they should! I am actually fine with my products costing more if I have a guarantee that the workers were treated well), I think that there's still a reasonably high chance that manufacturing would still move to another developing country that doesn't.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#279

Post by concordDance »

cbozeman wrote: post #209
pjc50 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's so unproductive why does it pay so well?

Options traders are paid well. It's still unproductive. You're just shifting around a bunch of numbers temporarily to make a bunch of money for someone and lose a bunch for someone else. Lots of shit we do is well-paid and unproductive. If, as a species, we eliminated all bullshit jobs, there's a good chance only 20-30% of the species would be working. Here in America, only around 50% of people are actually working.…

Options traders help with the efficient allocation of capital, which is actually very valuable to society.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#280

Post by kombine »

whimsicalism wrote: post #96
d3ckard wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t disagree with the core premise, but why much more than Ukraine?

Taiwan is a long-standing well-functioning democracy and a core ally. On the other side, I also view Russia's grievances as somewhat more legitimate than China's.

No grievances that Russia might have had can justify this devastating war, and total annihilation, and mass murder.
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