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The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
271–280 of 493 posts
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#272The top comment pretty much sums up everything that’s wrong with DRM: > Lest one get the impression that hardware DRM fairs any better than software: Even 4K/HDR versions of streaming media start making the rounds on pirate sites within a day or two of release. > As usual DRM fails to prevent piracy while hurting the experience of paying customers.
Only one of the purposes of DRM is to prevent piracy. There are others.
One of which is to prevent mainstream media player manufacturers from making a hardware or software player which can skip region coding/studio tags/anti-piracy tags/trailers/random adverts. Or even from having a generic "skip 30s" feature.
You want to legitimately be able to play our stuff so you can sell millions of units of your player to unsophisticated consumers? Agree to these terms, and this fee schedule, or you don't get a key to play them. Fuck us over, and we'll revoke your key. Lol.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
Microsoft is just trying to match features with apple which does the sorts of things with the T2 chip. Home users probably don't care that much, but corporate users do. That said, the root of all DRM is not the TPM or the GPU or whatever... it is hollywood.
You mean Apple matched features with Microsoft. Devices with dTPM were released in 2006. BitLocker leveraging dTPM released with Windows Vista. Corporations have been using BitLocker w/ TPM for nearly two decades at this point.
You're referring to first usage but I think the above is about first guarantee of what ALL products in the platform will have. Corporate purchases or BYOD, you can assume an Apple product has a reasonably secure way of storing the user's VPN key or whatever.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
> attackers often get access to the SMS network itself (see e.g. Salt Typhoon) "Often"?
Bit of an understatement, should be "always have access" if state attackers are included in the threat model.
To be fair, there are also non-state attackers that can mass intercept SMS.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#275The author is correct in that media DRM is tied to GPU vendors on the field right now. But hardware backed DRM can be so much more invasive beyond that. I have no doubts the long term goal of MS is to have a Windows version of Play Integrity.[0] So total control over everything that happens on your device. Just to give an example of what could happen if this becomes reality: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Enviro…
I have trouble understanding your use of the term DRM. Media DRM makes sense: the copyright holders want to "manage" their rights digitally. How is that relevant to Play Integrity or WEI? Whose right is being protected or managed? If I have an Android without Play Integrity there are certain apps that will not run, but I don't see any rights being managed here: an app developer has the right to refuse service just li…
Ultimately, DRM is untenable without users also being locked out of their own devices.
Consequently pressure to support more effective DRM will always translate into pressure to restrict what users can do with their devices.
Furthermore, the only defense against this is large open device market share: once closed devices comprise most of the market, DRM proponents can announce they'll stop supporting open devices, creating a downward spiral that further decreases the availability of open devices.
And then we live in a future that's fucked.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The vast majority of users aren't going to have their laptop stolen by the CIA/NSA and have their DIMMs popped and cryofreezed. That's kind of the point. The vast majority of users aren't going to have their laptop stolen at all, if they do it will 99% of the time be by someone who only wants to wipe it and fence it, and attempts to access data are most likely to be by unsophisticated family members who would be de…
> The vast majority of users aren't going to have their laptop stolen at all The vast majority of homeowners aren't going to have a house fire. The vast majority of drivers aren't going to have an accident. Etc. etc. etc. It's insurance. > The current recommendation seems to be against SMS 2FA because the security of SMS really is that bad, so if you need 2FA, use an authenticator app or similar. This is correct. But…
> SMS 2FA is better than no 2FA
Depending on the implementation it's occasionally more secure. For me it's never "better."
A significant fraction of banks, retirement accounts, financial web services, ..., can fully reset your password using just the SMS "2FA," sometimes most also requiring an e-mail verification. That turns the device into a single factor much weaker than a password (making physical attacks -- ex-lovers, nosy houseguests, ... much easier). There are a variety of easy methods for taking over a phone number temporarily or permanently for Knowing how often SMS 2FA gets screwed up, I'd strongly prefer to avoid services offering it (especially those requiring it) even if there were no other downsides. Toss in the inconvenience of having to drive into town (many rural places I've lived), find a point of higher ground (many taller cities I've visited), or whatever just to get cell service, and the whole concept is a nightmare.
And so on. It's painful to use, usually much less secure, and rarely meaningfully more secure.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no misunderstanding on my part; it's why I said that their ignorance is totally on-brand. >more like the mainstream has abandoned free software. Indeed, because free software development is largely driven by ideological purity rather than feature parity. Mainstream users see Free Software people as irrelevant kooks, and thus easy to dismiss, which is why Free Software has so utterly failed as a movement. >You…
> Indeed, because free software development is largely driven by ideological purity rather than feature parity. Ideological purity is a valuable thing. Look at Minix, hell, even look at the BSDs today. These are projects that have collapsed because of their feature obsession and ignorance of ideology. The differentiation of ideology is what makes free software uniquely successful - it is the feature. > Mainstream use…
>You are the guy lambasting Gallileo, and when Gallileo asks you why heliocentrism offends you, you are replying "because the mainstream clergy sees you as kooks."
I'm lambasting the people who think this fictional Galileo is a good public persona to lead their political movement, because this Galileo can't convince anyone of anything because he is almost entirely devoid of the skills one needs to advance a political cause even if Galileo might have written some good C code 45 years ago.
>If users cared enough to understand the difference, you and I both know they would accuse the businesses of being the irrelevant kooks. Not a single "maintream user" I know would defend Apple or Google or Microsoft's business practices as software companies. No one.
I can see we have irreconcilable differences. I find this statement ludicrous.
I know lots of people who understand what free software is and choose to make a living selling proprietary software.
This will be my last reply to you.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#278Earlier quoted context omitted.
“Normies” are never going to care about the stuff the FSF is interested in. I don’t think you can extract the philosophy from the eccentric personalities that created it, they’re one in the same.
If you believe that normies deserve computing freedom (this doesn’t seem to entirely be consensus in the scene), it ought to be a goal to explain the benefits of it in a way that they will understand. Some may still not care, but my experience is that a good part actually does. If nothing else this is good leverage to influence change for one‘s own interest.
Most people just want to be able to access media easily with no effort- which they already can do with cheap streaming subscriptions. They have no interest in owning the rights to use it forever, or in downloading or copying it. They wouldn't want to take the time to figure out how to do that, even if they legally could when they can already just click and play.
I think if you want people to care, you need to find a real world case where they are being blocked from doing something they really want to do- the abstract philosophical arguments about freedom are total non-starters.
Possibly an alternative media supplier that was fundamentally less hassle, faster, and more reliable because it didn't have these systems could get people to switch. But good luck getting the digital rights owners to let you put their content on your platform.
Or maybe convince people they can get higher quality media that way. I have a newish Mac with an amazing HDR screen, but few of the streaming sites are willing to stream the HDR content to my device.
Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's a misunderstanding of what the FSF stands for overall, though. The FSF can never be a diplomatic negotiator for the benefit of free software; they are idealists, even when it serves against their own interests. Their whole shtick is not settling for half-baked appeasements, and so they're destined to be a pariah of the tech industry at-large. Neither you nor me can stop them, it's entirely within their…
There's no misunderstanding on my part; it's why I said that their ignorance is totally on-brand. >more like the mainstream has abandoned free software. Indeed, because free software development is largely driven by ideological purity rather than feature parity. Mainstream users see Free Software people as irrelevant kooks, and thus easy to dismiss, which is why Free Software has so utterly failed as a movement. >You…
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Re: The GPU, not the TPM, is the root of hardware DRM
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's always an analog loophole. Even if the OS is unable to access the memory storing the decrypted data, you could always just plug the output of the machine into a capture card and capture the decrypted stream that way. I suppose some monitors and TVs have "features" to cryptographically handshake with the GPU and ensure a secure link, but at some point the data must be decrypted and decoded to be displayed. Thi…
There is no analogue loophole, that's like 15 years behind the curve. Cinavia closed that a long time ago and meant that licensed devices like Bluray players, even TVs, can detect cammed recordings even those cammed in movie theatres. Of course you can try to play them with hardware that doesn't follow the rules. But there's a finite number of vendors, so that isn't necessarily easy.
I’m confused, you’re saying the TV can tell if someone is pointing a camera at it? That seems highly doubtful.