Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps • Hacker News Board

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#271

Post by batch12 » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 2:29 AM UTC

dmonitor wrote: post #266

batch12 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pastors and priests I know do much more than 30 minutes of work a week. In addition to the sermon, they provide counseling, perform weddings, funerals, attend each if not leading, visit the sick and homebound, attend to church business, help coordinate activities, help solve conflicts, represent the church, do Bible studies during the week, help with children's programs and so on. I don't think I would have the s…

There are definitely sects that take the job much more seriously than others. I personally have known too many that basically end up coordinating a group of volunteer assistant pastors and deacons to nearly all of the work. Frequent month-long vacations as well (they're called "sabbaticles" because it sounds biblical). They also frequently run into some moral scandal (plagiarism, adultery, theft), plead for forgivene…

Yeah, that is sad. The biggest mistake I think is made in modern Christianity is forgetting that all fall short and that somehow Christians are somehow better humans than others.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#272

Post by batch12 » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 2:32 AM UTC

dmonitor wrote: post #270

batch12 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Samaritan was essentially the enemy of the Jew which is what makes the story so poignant. As for how to interact with non believers, Paul talks about this in his letters to the Romans and the church in Corinth. 1 Corinthians 2:14 NIV [14] The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned onl…

> The reason Christians are encouraged to bring the gospel to non believers is commonly referred to as the great commission. However this should be given and not forced . I'm familiar, but it's tangential to what I'm saying. I'm referring to the belief that you should only engage with non-believers because it represents a recruitment opportunity. It's not a belief that I see preached (often), but it's definitely one…

The context above that verse is important. It's not that Christians shouldn't associate with non believers, but avoid believers "brothers and sisters" that are basically fake.

1 Corinthians 5:9-10 NIV [9] I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— [10] not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#273

Post by mistrial9 » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 2:36 AM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #228

alsetmusic wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been reading a lot about the early church for about a year and really enjoying it. I'm an atheist but I'm also a history nerd so it's been truly fascinating. Here are some that I've enjoyed: - The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels; I read this one so casually that I don't have a good summary due to poor memory. - The Passover Plot by Hugh J Schonfield; author contends that Jesus believed that he was the prophesie…

Elaine Pagels is the one who got publication credit for the lost Gospels of Thomas.. that was discussed across the globe in literate circles. That book you mention by her is new to me (1995). The Origin of Satan: How Christians Demonized Jews, Pagans, and Heretics. New York: Vintage Books. ISBN 978-0-679-40140-7

actually Elaine Pagels is currently writing a book called Miracles and Wonder: The Historical Mystery of Jesus (Hardcover) due April 2025

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#274

Post by mike978 » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 4:19 AM UTC

NemoNobody wrote: post #261

mike978 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those curious about the trinity what it is and why it is important to Christian faith I highly recommend Delighting in the Trinity by Michael Reeves [1] "...what kind of God could outstrip the attractions of all other things? Could any unitary, single-person god do so? Hardly, or at least not for long. Single-person gods must, by definition, have spent eternity in absolute solitude. Before creation, having no oth…

This is something best between you and God - let kno others tell you what this is, it is perhaps the most powerful thing ever revealed to us. 3 that equal 1. It's a fundamental rule found everywhere - there is a softer voice within that will speak to of it but you have to ask it to tell you and then have ears to hear it.

While I agree that many of us are headed from different parts of the city or countryside, if we are Christians or seekers we are all headed to the same destination. So while our satnav path may look different, there are inevitably similar experiences along the way from which we can learn. Beyond that if you are a Christian you believe the Word will apply to all of those situations. Those who study the word can therefore offer insight. I believe this also includes truths like the trinity. So in those sense I would say no it's no purely internal. That being said yes, faith is head knowledge acting in anticipation from the heart as a relationship between you and God.

"It's a fundamental rule found everywhere - there is a softer voice within that will speak to of it but you have to ask it to tell you and then have ears to hear it." But without experience and until you learn to discern the softer voice you must test it against scripture, to know whose it is.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#275

Post by emmelaich » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 4:45 AM UTC

mistrial9 wrote: post #97

emmelaich wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, this has changed a lot. Catholic churches built in the last 50 years are far more austere than those built earlier.

I believe it, modern society has killed the artisans crafts. No one can make the old style ornament now.

I think it's more that Catholics were sensitive to the accusations of idolatry.

So they reduced the use of statues of Jesus, Mary and more. And iconography.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#276

Post by NemoNobody » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 6:16 AM UTC

Hilift wrote: post #202

paganel wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1054, in fact, but the 1204 ransacking of Constantinople certainly didn't help with how the "Franks" (because that's how the Catholics were mostly called) were seen by the Christian-Orthodox (if it matters I'm a Christian-Orthodox myself). I was reading a travelogue written by a Russian monk (? not sure, either a monk or a wealthy boyar predisposed to the Holy stuff) who was visiting Constantinople sometimes in the e…

If you read Wikipedia, there was the Massacre of the "Latins" in Constantinople in 1182. That almost certainly made it easy to make it a revenge play for the Venetians and associates. What I find most interesting is the Romans were unbeatable in battle, even the Byzantines. However, maintaining a large military presence was expensive and politically difficult to manage. So they used annual mercenaries from the north…

I think Hannibal is owed some credit for marching elephants over the alps - I believe Rome razed and erased Carthage on their 3rd or 4th try? No matter really, it wasn't their 1st.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#277

Post by NemoNobody » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 6:31 AM UTC

zapperdulchen wrote: post #263

NemoNobody wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very careful what you let others tell you about Early Christianity - almost exclusively they will explain to you how whatever belief they have now came out of it and compare the two and determine today we have truth... Early was earlier tho - the people that twist our recent revelations about the content of the testaments to support the perverted teaching today are literally twisting the closest text in existe…

I am not sure what do you mean by your hint. Stating that the Gospel of Thomas predates all other Gospels is not a view that is shared by many scientists. One source of many: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gospel_of_Thoma...

Well, it actually is commonly accepted either as the "Q Text" - or as possibly the "Q" text. The "Q" text is the single document long speculated to be the primary source for the 4 Gospels in the Bible, and that was before we had the Gospel of Thomas as we do now - nothing at all to do with a conspiracy theory that shares the letter.

Anyways, I've also read the Gospel of Thomas - it most certainly predates the other Gospels.

If it doesn't, the others have been so edited and changed over time that they've been rendered more likely to be a copy than an original work.

It's also fantastic and Jesus himself says things the Church doesn't want you to believe - hence why a book comprised exclusively of the sayings of Jesus Christ (many of which are in the other Gospels) isn't in the Bible, bc THAT Jesus preached a different Christianity than the one we have. Weird...

It's one of my favorite texts in general. Super easy read... perhaps think for yourself?

I mean fr, scientist made up dark matter and dark energy bc by their own realization, their maths didn't work - so they invent an invisible thing to make their maths work and it now turns out, the maths did work, if the universe was simply older than they accounted - they obviously didn't consider that or I would kno all about how embarrassingly stupid they have been to avoid looking somewhere they have "decided" the answer already. They just pulled it out their ass - it's in textbooks, I doubt it exists at all but the people with papers on it will keep on as "a theory" until they die, solely out of pride.

That's just my one example of today. You as capable as almost every other person - let's discuss when you've read it.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#278

Post by NemoNobody » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 6:47 AM UTC

throw0101c wrote: post #139

giraffe_lady wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but most lay people from either branch couldn't tell you the practical consequences of this. It's widely known & considered important because it's a remaining theological justification for the schism, not the other way around.

An interesting take on the dilemma between the two 'sides': > You see the problem. If you include the filioque, you fight the Arians in the West while inadvertently supporting the Sabellians in the East. But if you exclude it, you fight the Sabellians while inadvertently supporting the Arians. At its heart, the filioque is really a linguistic debate, not a theological one. * https://old.reddit.com/r/Catholicism/comme…

Ok - I'm not saying that I believe Jesus was born of a virgin and placed within the womb by an angel, I mean maybe, but very very likely Jesus was a man, Joseph was his father or his Mother for away with the biggest lie ever to cover her adultery - obviously either of those things that actually have and do happen are more likely than something that never has, save this one time... maybe.

Jesus said he was the Son of God bc WE - HUMANITY is in fact that. It's not an actual parent child relationship but 2500 years ago Jesus had nothing in his pocket to explain better than the family analogy.

The actual OG basis of almost all religious teachings in almost every religion is that WE are in fact God, living as human, experiencing his creation first hand, as US.

Jesus claimed to be the Son of God and didn't lie even if not true the way we believe it to be. It was also prolly a great way to get attention as he had a Father, ppl must have spoke of that.

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#279

Post by RMPR » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 6:52 AM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #210

toolslive wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not "evidence". The bible mentions Babylon and Babylon existed, but the bible mentioning Babylon is no evidence of Babylon's existence. In this sentence, I'm mentioning the Sun, and it exists, but I provide no evidence whatsoever.

I may have misinterpreted what you are saying. When I read this > there is no evidence of anything in the Bible I interpreted it as you saying "Nothing in the bible has corroborating evidence". Not "the bible is not evidence for anything". The bible mentions the sun and we have corroborating evidence that the sun does indeed exist. The bible's mention of the sun alone isn't evidence for it's existence. That said, the…

> but rather the fact that the bible makes errors in his history likely to cover up well known facts about him at the time.

Out of curiosity what errors are you referring to?

Re: Silver amulet is the oldest evidence of Christianity north of the Alps

#280

Post by NemoNobody » Thu, Dec 19, 2024, 6:54 AM UTC

sickofparadox wrote: post #167

vintagedave wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taught as a child, and this was Protestant with a clear anti-Catholic bias, that: * Catholics prayed _to_ Mary (eg asking to intercede on your behalf); * This was speaking to the dead, and expecting a response, and thus a sin in some way I am not sure of. I'm guessing you're Catholic from your response; would you mind explaining to this somewhat lost person how Catholics view these two topics please? (I've neve…

>This was speaking to the dead, and expecting a response, and thus a sin in some way I am not sure of. Catholics believe that people in heaven are not dead, and can hear your prayers for intercession (this is the case with most protestants too). Jesus said, after all, that he is the God of the living not the God of the dead[1], and that those in heaven will be reborn in a new and everlasting life. Catholics further b…

The dead are dead - they cannot hear those prayers. God may be able to but if he hears our laments to our lost loved ones, even if we ask them to help us, I cannot conceive how he could anything but pity us, he loves us after all.

People punish - Jesus loves. That's a super easy way to see the lies from the truth