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GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#271

Post by paxys »

jcgrillo wrote: post #263
paxys wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like asking why do cars and roads exist at all when everyone can just use public transit. The answer is that people want cars. They want to drive. They want to be taken directly from point A to point B without needing to walk to transit stops and switch buses/trains and face unpredictable schedules and delays. Autonomous road infrastructure is a sensible, incremental improvement. And in fact city buses will te…

How are you going to keep me in my non-autonomous car out of your special "autonomous only and also maybe busses" lane? EDIT: and yes, it's a completely reasonable question to ask why invest in special new kinds of roads when more people would be better served by public transit.

..the exact same way every other traffic rule is enforced? How do you stop cars from driving on the wrong side of the road or running a red light?

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#272

Post by smaddox »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #178
brcmthrowaway wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does vision work at night?! RGB Cameras dont see anything...

Apparently they have been surprised at how few photons are required to see for these sensors. They are skipping the image computer vision step and going from photons to car control in as few layers as possible.

Apparently they're using this CMOS sensor: https://www.onsemi.com/products/sensors/image-sensors/ar0136...

It's not an event camera, so it's very much taking images, which are then being processed by computer vision algorithms.

Event cameras seem more viable than CMOS sensors for autonomous vehicle applications in the absence of LIDAR. CMOS dynamic range and response isn't as good as the human eye. LIDAR+CMOS is considerably better in many ways.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#274

Post by SkyPuncher »

rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

> It seems like drivers did not find the feature compelling and were not renewing.

IMO, it's largely because BlueCruise (and all of the similar services) is not sufficiently better than the non-subscription driver assists.

I have the option of BlueCruise on my vehicle and it's just not a compelling offer.

* It only works on major highways. Beyond actual coverage, major highways are places where the standard driver assists already work extremely well.

* It does nothing about traffic around you. You have to be prepared to react. Not much different than driver assist.

* It's wickedly expensive.

Right now, radar assisted cruise and camera based lane centering eases 95% of my driving fatigue.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#275

Post by bcoates »

steveoscaro wrote: post #252
rgovostes wrote: post #3

> GM said in a statement that “... an increasingly competitive robotaxi market” were the reasons for the change. Isn't there basically Google/Waymo and then, seemingly much further behind, Tesla Cybertaxi, Amazon/Zoox, and Uber/Yandex? Cruise allegedly has one of the most sophisticated autonomous driving platforms, and GM's Super Cruise (if they share any tech) is comparable to Tesla FSD. Strange that they would bow…

It's weird to me to see so many people thinking Tesla is "far behind", when in reality, they're far, far ahead of the competition for a general purpose and scalable self driving solution. Seems like political biases just cloud judgement so much. Youtube now has videos comparing Tesla FSD V13 with Waymo rides on the same routes.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now.

Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#276

Post by jcgrillo »

paxys wrote: post #271
jcgrillo wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you going to keep me in my non-autonomous car out of your special "autonomous only and also maybe busses" lane? EDIT: and yes, it's a completely reasonable question to ask why invest in special new kinds of roads when more people would be better served by public transit.

..the exact same way every other traffic rule is enforced? How do you stop cars from driving on the wrong side of the road or running a red light?

Those things are easy to detect. It's much less easy to prevent a simple lane change. Some cities have "bus only" lanes, which cars use anyway, but it's easy to detect them since they don't look like busses. How are you going to detect that my car isn't autonomous?

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#277

Post by spankalee »

bcoates wrote: post #275
steveoscaro wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to me to see so many people thinking Tesla is "far behind", when in reality, they're far, far ahead of the competition for a general purpose and scalable self driving solution. Seems like political biases just cloud judgement so much. Youtube now has videos comparing Tesla FSD V13 with Waymo rides on the same routes.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

Waymo doesn't have remote divers of any sort.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#278

Post by quest88 »

paxys wrote: post #262
jcgrillo wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're going to block off lanes and install sensors why not just lay track and use streetcars? Rail is way more efficient. This has been a solved problem for the better part of two centuries.

That's like asking why do cars and roads exist at all when everyone can just use public transit. The answer is that people want cars. They want to drive. They want to be taken directly from point A to point B without needing to walk to transit stops and switch buses/trains and face unpredictable schedules and delays. Autonomous road infrastructure is a sensible, incremental improvement. And in fact city buses will te…

I almost agree. I'd say people want the most convenient thing. We can see people do not want to drive by the fact people who owns cars take public transit, or take the high speed train when driving is an option.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#279

Post by Petersipoi »

bcoates wrote: post #275
steveoscaro wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird to me to see so many people thinking Tesla is "far behind", when in reality, they're far, far ahead of the competition for a general purpose and scalable self driving solution. Seems like political biases just cloud judgement so much. Youtube now has videos comparing Tesla FSD V13 with Waymo rides on the same routes.

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

That means you live in 1 of like 6 cities in the world. Kind of hard to compare Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach and accurately judge how far ahead Waymo is. Come to my city and you will see exactly 0 Waymo's. And it isn't clear to me if it's much easier for Waymo to scale from 6 cities to tens of thousands of cities or for Tesla to scale from tens of thousands of cities to tens of thousands of cities but better.

My gut tells me Waymo is ahead, probably by a good amount. But calling Telsa FSD "vaporware" is absurd, and leads me to the same conclusion that GP already called out.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#280

Post by jcgrillo »

quest88 wrote: post #278
paxys wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like asking why do cars and roads exist at all when everyone can just use public transit. The answer is that people want cars. They want to drive. They want to be taken directly from point A to point B without needing to walk to transit stops and switch buses/trains and face unpredictable schedules and delays. Autonomous road infrastructure is a sensible, incremental improvement. And in fact city buses will te…

I almost agree. I'd say people want the most convenient thing. We can see people do not want to drive by the fact people who owns cars take public transit, or take the high speed train when driving is an option.

making public transit convenient is easy: congestion price the cars the fuck outta downtown. Bingo, public transit just got more convenient!
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