Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981 • Hacker News Board

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#271

Post by mppm » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 10:19 AM UTC

eru wrote: post #261

mppm wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can buy long lasting stuff just fine, if you are willing to pay. You can get eternal licenses (or an outright sale of rights), if you are willing to pay. Would that 'twere so simple. Most previously reliable premium manufacturers have jumped on the enshittification bandwagon. You can get better design and a more exclusive branding if you are willing to pay more, but where exactly would you turn if you are looki…

> [...] but where exactly would you turn if you are looking, for example, for a dish washer that will just work for the next ten years? Miele works well for us. I understand your complaint. I'm also sure it's really hard to get high quality buggy whips these days without paying through the nose, now that everyone has switched to these newfangled horseless carriages.

> Miele works well for us.

That's what I would have said as well, until recently. Last year we had to replace ours, and its been an absolute nightmare. Cost us endless hours of wrangling with technicians and customer service to have it installed and configured properly (and already repaired once). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#272

Post by 8fingerlouie » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 10:42 AM UTC

johnklos wrote: post #152

I think the Voyager probes teach us lots about what's wrong with corporate America. Imagine devices that don't have built-in obsolescence, or licensing that expires, or that isn't built by committee where they just keep shipping requirements around from one department to another. Imagine if it weren't all proprietary and if it didn't have no public or even complete documentation. Think of all the problems we have ins…

> Microsoft Windows on ATMs and vending devices that literally can't not have pop-ups.

I know of several ATMs that still run OS/2 2.1 or OS/2 Warp. They're a slow dying breed that is being replaced by Unix (Linux or similar), but they still exist. Chances are, if you're in Europe, and the ATM you're using is one of the "slow screen refresh rate" ones, it's still running OS/2.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#273

Post by pvaldes » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 11:28 AM UTC

picture wrote: post #140

pvaldes wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is HN, a bunch of computer programmers think they know more than And they are correct At least on the programming part, having in mind the huge advances in computers since the Voyager was built. Any professional computer programmer here knows more in their field than a programmer from 70's. A Voyager built today with similar resources would be much better, 100% guaranteed. Voyager 1 was a fantastic machine don…

But this is about the overall engineering of Voyager, not just the programming. Also, I'm skeptical how much better modern hardware will fare in deep space conditions, considering the use of finer and more fragile electronics. Since you're talking about general people instead of specialists, also consider how the median software developer seem to focus less on correctness, reliability, and optimization, compared to t…

1) It was sophisticated indeed, top of its game, but lets not lie to yourselves. We still have best engineers and better programmers today. Just to put things in context in that time we moved from "Pong" to "World of Warcraft".

And is not just software. Reducing an entire computer room to the palm of your hand but with better storage, graphics and computing power is basically black magic. I can't imagine what Voyager could do with a current Nvidia chip.

2) Just because people is not trained in some specific domain does not mean that they couldn't be motivated to do it. I bet that the people that built the Voyager didn't born with the instructions engraved in their brains. And if they learned, other people can also.

If I learned something after lurking HN for a lot of years is to never, ever, underestimate this community. This place stills keep surprising me in good ways.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#274

Post by RandomThoughts3 » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 12:35 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #237

goldfishgold wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of 100 year old companies doing basically what they did 100 years ago (Exxon, Coke, Hershey, Wells Fargo, etc.). They’re just not tech companies.

Wow, your choices are interesting. * Exxon: Massive amounts of technology have been ingested by the oil majors in the last 50 years. It is basically a high tech business at this point. Also, if we only focus on the physical work, fracking didn't exist 50 years ago, and now it is a major part of the industry. Again: Huge changes. * Coke/Hershey: Think about how much automation exists in their manuf. Do any humans touc…

Their point wasn’t that innovation doesn’t exist. Obviously things change. Still, both Exonn, Coke and Wells Fargo are still fundamentally in the same business as they were before. That’s not the case of other companies. IBM became big selling punch-card tabulating system. Have you seen a punch card recently?

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#275

Post by gruturo » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 12:54 PM UTC

gray_-_wolf wrote: post #72

gruturo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The longer the half life, the lower the power output, no free lunches. But by putting the same suitable radioactive lump in a stirling engine you can extract 4 times as much electricity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirling_radioisotope_generato... So yes maybe with Americium-241 we could have something which lasts 4 times a much _and_ gives us the same amount of power thanks to a SRG.

But it seems to involve moving parts, so I am not sure the reliability trade-off is worth it for decades/centuries long missions.

Yes, it's being tested (NASA ran one for ~15 years continuously, which seems promising, I don't know if the test is still running), but I don't know if any were actually launched and are used in space.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#276

Post by gtech1 » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #274

throwaway2037 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, your choices are interesting. * Exxon: Massive amounts of technology have been ingested by the oil majors in the last 50 years. It is basically a high tech business at this point. Also, if we only focus on the physical work, fracking didn't exist 50 years ago, and now it is a major part of the industry. Again: Huge changes. * Coke/Hershey: Think about how much automation exists in their manuf. Do any humans touc…

Their point wasn’t that innovation doesn’t exist. Obviously things change. Still, both Exonn, Coke and Wells Fargo are still fundamentally in the same business as they were before. That’s not the case of other companies. IBM became big selling punch-card tabulating system. Have you seen a punch card recently?

Ibm was not in the punch card machine making business. It was in the data processing business, and still is.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#277

Post by dartos » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #233

zakary wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked with some people in the defence industry who got just that from Adobe and a few similar vendors. They had to negotiate with adobe and sign NDAs both ways, and they payed through the nose for it. But you can do it.

Interesting. Can you point at something online with details of how that happens?

Many companies have separate license sales if you call them on behalf of a large company.

I worked at a large project management app where we charged per-seat.

We only offered per seat pricing, yet we had at least 3 companies that had flat pricing because they wanted >100k seats.

Deals outside of standard pricing gets cut all the time.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#278

Post by fifilura » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 1:38 PM UTC

throwaway2037 wrote: post #232

Maxion wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland will still keep 2G for a long time.

Is there a particular reason? And how do you know so much about 2G in Finland, specifically!?

A guess...

1G (NMT) and 2G networks have been used in forestry. Very often the machines are far from a mast and need the extra range to communicate.

And in general Finland is a sparsely populated country.

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#279

Post by Koshkin » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 1:47 PM UTC

smcin wrote: post #196

bluGill wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use your 25 year old phone for more than a snake game. most 2g towers have been turned off to make room for 4g and 5g.

In the US, North America, you mean. 2G is still alive and kicking, especially in Africa and South Asia: https://streetwave.co/mobile-networks/2g-switch-off-by-count... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out

> what's wrong with corporate America

Re: Voyager 1 breaks its silence with NASA via radio transmitter not used since 1981

#280

Post by xpe » Mon, Nov 18, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

NavinF wrote: post #121

jfengel wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem helpful. Nothing lasts forever, and if you don't figure out when it's going to fail, it's going to be sooner rather than later.

FWIW his quote also applies to a lotta devices here on Earth. For example guns are not designed to last forever, but they are designed not to fail. You don't want to hear a click when you expect a bang or vice versa. As a side effect, they last forever. It's fairly common for a 100 year old gun to work perfectly in 2024.

There are also expectations about maintenance and some notion of a “standard” environment. For example, unmaintained firearms work less well (or fail) when exposed to humid conditions.