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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#271

Post by chris_wot »

ajross wrote: post #258
istjohn wrote: post #250

If we aren't going to abolish the death penalty, we should at least require a higher standard of proof than beyond a reasonable doubt to carry it out. It should require incontrovertible proof. Circumstantial evidence should not be allowed. Expert testimony should be barred. The evidence must be conclusive, plain, and certain to every member of the jury. This would allow you to execute, e.g., mass shooters who give th…

I think most people would agree with that stuff in isolation, but reasonable solutions aren't really addressing the problem. Support for the Death Penalty is a political shibboleth in the modern US. It's not going to change, realistically ever, absent a major demographic realignment in the way we sort our citizens into parties. Preaching to a choir of geeks looking for "solutions" is the wrong target.

IMO, the only solution is to abolish it.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#272

Post by seadan83 »

snapcaster wrote: post #133
01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No, we lost Roe v. Wade because the democrat party is so useless at representing our interests they failed to ever pass any law granting the right to abortion. Republicans didn't sit on their hands complacently for 40 years like democrats they followed a systematic approach to overturning it. Meanwhile the democrats did nothing except ask me for more money and continue to take L after L

Did Democrats have a filibuster proof majority since 1970? IIRC that has not been the case since at least 2000 (perhaps going back even further). Passing such a law would require a filibuster proof majority. I agree to the sentiment of uselessness, but some fairness should be payed. Congress is kinda dysfunctional with any serious legislation requiring a super majority in congress and the presidency.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#273

Post by xyzzyz »

CSMastermind wrote: post #175
diogenes_atx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated in the article written by the legal scholars at the Innocence Project: > "There is no reliable evidence proving that Marcellus Williams committed the crime for which he is scheduled to be executed on Sept. 24. The State destroyed or corrupted the evidence that could conclusively prove his innocence and the available DNA and other forensic crime-scene evidence does not match him." DNA evidence is based on pr…

It's sad to me that the Innocence Project, instead of being a neutral third party investigating and then pushing back against wrongful convictions, have just become an all out 'stop the death penalty' advocacy group. Ultimately I think this undermines their cause and hurts their ability to save truly innocent people.

They have always been such.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#274

Post by Trill-I-Am »

ajross wrote: post #258
istjohn wrote: post #250

If we aren't going to abolish the death penalty, we should at least require a higher standard of proof than beyond a reasonable doubt to carry it out. It should require incontrovertible proof. Circumstantial evidence should not be allowed. Expert testimony should be barred. The evidence must be conclusive, plain, and certain to every member of the jury. This would allow you to execute, e.g., mass shooters who give th…

I think most people would agree with that stuff in isolation, but reasonable solutions aren't really addressing the problem. Support for the Death Penalty is a political shibboleth in the modern US. It's not going to change, realistically ever, absent a major demographic realignment in the way we sort our citizens into parties. Preaching to a choir of geeks looking for "solutions" is the wrong target.

Plenty of states have banned it in the past 50 years. It's on the decline.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#275

Post by sashank_1509 »

It seems wrong, that the 2 major points of evidence against Marcellus are a testimony from his ex and cellmate. I don’t trust humans, to trust convicting people based on 2 hearsay sources of testimony. Maybe this worked in the past when America was smaller and the average morality of a person was very high, but now this just seems ripe for abuse.

I wouldn’t use this evidence to make a decision in an office dispute.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#276

Post by tptacek »

wpm wrote: post #264
MikeAmelung wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glenn Roberts. The laptop was identified as the one stolen from Gayle's residence." https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/2003/sc-...

Circumstantial. There are a 1000 different ways he could have obtained those items without committing a murder. Prove that having them is proof positive he killed someone.

I don't think we should have capital punishment at all, anywhere, and certainly this is a textbook example of why, but circumstantial evidence is real evidence, admissible in court cases.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#277

Post by [deleted] »

MikeAmelung wrote: post #261
diogenes_atx wrote: post #253

Many of the contributors to this thread are under the wrong impression that the police found the victim's laptop and other items in Marcellus Williams' car. This is not true. According to Wikipedia, the murder occurred in August 1998, but it was not until May 1999 that the victim's family "announced a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case. In response, two individuals, Henry C…

"The next day, the police searched the Buick LeSabre and found the Post-Dispatch ruler and calculator belonging to Gayle. The police also recovered the laptop computer from Glenn Roberts. The laptop was identified as the one stolen from Gayle's residence." https://law.justia.com/cases/missouri/supreme-court/2003/sc-...

[deleted]

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#278

Post by seadan83 »

Hasu wrote: post #68
sofixa wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The prosecutor who wanted to pardon him was not the original prosecutor, but a recent progressive elected one It's beyond stupid to elect people who are in charge of upholding laws and prosecute crimes. They have to campaign, make their views known, and to get elected, show views which of course aren't necessarily related to what their job should be about. Get professionals that are as impartial as possible. They w…

If prosecutors are going to be biased either way, I'd prefer a choice in those biases.

Then you're also okay with me choosing the bias of a prosecutor prosecuting you?

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#279

Post by droopyEyelids »

tptacek wrote: post #276
wpm wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Circumstantial. There are a 1000 different ways he could have obtained those items without committing a murder. Prove that having them is proof positive he killed someone.

I don't think we should have capital punishment at all, anywhere, and certainly this is a textbook example of why, but circumstantial evidence is real evidence, admissible in court cases.

This is true, but circumstantial evidence is seldom enough to have the DA bring a case to trial because it is weak evidence.

At least, thats my impression im not a lawyer.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#280

Post by truetraveller »

TrackerFF wrote: post #47

So it seems that the original case rested on the following: - Williams GF witness testimony, that Williams confessed to her. - Jailhouse witness testimony, that Williams had confessed to them. - That Williams had items (purse, laptop, etc.) in his car, on the day or day after the murder. But no DNA evidence? A death penalty seems pretty egregious, when you have that kind of evidence. Seems like there's plenty of reas…

> on the day or day after the murder.

They found this a 8-10 months later, not the next day. So much misinformation, I believe on purpose. And her GF snitched before, not to mention she wanted the reward.

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