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Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

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Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#271

Post by notheyarent »

SoftTalker wrote: post #242
Wojtkie wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm not sure there'd be much benefit to spending energy on a 3rd eye. You can already achieve stereoscopic vision with just two eyes, why waste the energy on a third? It probably doesn't increase fitness enough to be worth the energy spend.

Yet some creatures have many more than two eyes. Spiders, for example.

Those are not eyes though. Animals eyes always come in a pair and whether it’s a human, dog, cat, mouse etc they are Gods gateway to the soul. It’s self evident.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#272

Post by abhgh »

zbirkenbuel wrote: post #184
setgree wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might enjoy 'Children of Ruin' by Adrian Tchaikovsky, which explores this idea in depth with a civilization of genetically modified, super-intelligent octopuses. (Though I'd start with the first book in the series, 'Children of Time')

A solid series, with descriptions of thought process feeling truly alien. I'm currently enjoying "The Mountain in the Sea" by Ray Nayler for more octopus based speculative fiction

I would also recommend "The Mountain in the Sea"! I have mentioned this earlier on hn that I like it because it focuses on complexity of inter-species communication, even when both parties are intelligent. Interesting and somewhat unusual focus, plus loved the style of writing.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#273

Post by Intralexical »

setgree wrote: post #112

How much of a leap is it to say that octopuses have effectively domesticated fish, the way early humans might have turned docile wolves into hunting companions?

I think domestication implies multigenerational changes in genetics and morphology to make the domesticated species more useful for the domesticating species.

It doesn't seem that there's any evidence of that yet. Maybe if they keep at it for a while, and either the fish they hunt with branch off into a separate population or they do it so much that it affects the entire population?

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#274

Post by Intralexical »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #13

I used to love eating octopus, but since I've learned so much about their intelligence, I have not been able to bring myself to do so, anymore. I have the luxury of choice. There are many, in this world, that do not.

I had a bit of tentacle float up in some seafood soup once. Felt like seeing a small severed finger, wrecked my appetite for that meal immediately.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#275

Post by Intralexical »

vasco wrote: post #192
marliechiller wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try eating young children, life is too short to not eat good food. That's what that sounds like to someone that opts not to eat something on the basis of its intelligence

If my parents and everyone around me for thousands of years ate young children and they all told me it was legal and tasty and good for you, I probably would. But since it's not it'd seem you're making a false equivalency from the top of your horse.

Wasn't this kinda the plot of The Giver? Not eating, but killing.

It took them some work to undo the indoctrination. Middle-school me wasn't sure if that was right. But empathy is actually an involuntary instinct in most humans, and I think Lowry was right in that most people will find such things "evil" when faced with the its reality.

Of course in real life there are places and situations where it is normalized to harm children. E.G. Currently unfolding with Sean Combs. But anybody outside those situations rightfully considers that disgusting and aberrant on finding out, and those inside it find ways to bury and rationalize their discomfort and end up traumatized for it instead of actually thinking it's good.

Either way, analogy is not false equivalency. And neither are OP's moral decisions an indictment of your culinary preference, nor does your culinary preference have any bearing on OP's morally motivated decisions.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#276

Post by naasking »

shiroiushi wrote: post #250
naasking wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, but it's pretty obvious that fish and chicken are very stupid animals, and those mammals are much smarter Does "smartness" carry inherent moral worth? That would be an interesting principle to hold, given what it might entail for humans.

>Does "smartness" carry inherent moral worth? Well that seems to be the assumption in this discussion thread. >That would be an interesting principle to hold, given what it might entail for humans. If you're implying that stupid people should be used as food, that's already been addressed elsewhere in this thread: cannibalism is very rare among other animals that are much stupider than us, and for good reason: there'…

It's more that it justifies treating other human beings like we do animals. Not just for food, but sterilizing them, confining them, abusing them, etc. This is crossing right into the old tragedies of eugenics.

Re: Octopuses seen hunting together with fish

#277

Post by 10xalphadev »

noelwelsh wrote: post #8

Literally a sucker punch. It doesn't seem like true cooperation as they don't share in the catch. I also didn't see any measurements of how much they caught versus hunting alone.

> I also didn't see any measurements of how much they caught versus hunting alone.

How would you propose to measure, Mr. Moasure? Care to share your setup?

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