The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable • Hacker News Board

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#271

Post by roc » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 1:51 AM UTC

neilc wrote: post #154

roc wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "But why would they turn the Mac Book pro into a MacBook Air with higher specs?" They didn't. You can still get an old-style macbook pro with updated internals. They're offering a new option that looks a lot like a MBP-Air. Doing essentially what you seem to suggest: giving people a choice of a new thing and not taking any old things away. And if/when most pros demonstrate that they don't care about the modicum of…

Doing essentially what you seem to suggest: giving people a choice of a new thing and not taking any old things away. You really think Apple will be selling old-style MBPs indefinitely? It seems like the product line is going through a transition, and the old-style MBPs will be the end of the line.

If the old style sells enough, I think they'll absolutely keep it around. In fact, I'd expect them to back off on the 'transition' and rename the new-style MBP an Air.

After all -- despite the mini, nano and shuffle -- the iPod classic stubbornly remains. Even after all these years. Not to mention the 13" MBP which seems (without the benefit of sales data) to be fairly pointless.

Apple won't hesitate to risk cannibalizing itself with new products. But they don't have any history of forcing the issue, if the old products still sell.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#272

Post by cheald » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 1:55 AM UTC

illamint wrote: post #85

I've always been in the camp that rarely replaces the battery in my Mac laptops, especially with the new LiPo batteries. It's not like they're NiCads that need replacing every month (I remember having a stack of batteries for my Powerbook Duo). Additionally, in the past, the only other components I've replaced have been drives (adding an SSD) and memory (upgrading to the max amount supported by the board). In this ca…

So, what you're saying is that 640kb should be enough for everyone, at least until next year's WWDC, when Apple releases a new $2000 laptop?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#273

Post by CamperBob2 » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:26 AM UTC

Someone wrote: post #225

latch wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't how it works. Apple has exclusive deals in place with many of its suppliers. Many of the parts Apple buy are either not available for anyone else, or not available at the same price. One way Apple has done this is to provide some of the initial capital needed for new plants/technologies. For example, if retooling a plant for new LCD production costs $1 billion, Apple might front 1/2 the money in exchange f…

On the other hand, there is nothing that prevents the likes of HP, Acer, Dell and Samsung to do the same. All of them could have the economics of scale Apple enjoys, but they choose to have a more diverse product line instead. Your argument would carry more weight if Apple had a much larger chunk of the market than all others.

Your argument would carry more weight if Apple had a much larger chunk of the market than all others.

For "Retina"-class displays, they absolutely do.

It was easy to see this coming years ago, and it was indeed inexcusable for everyone else to be caught flat-footed. Any fool should have been able to see exactly what was going to happen the minute they laid eyes on a non-Retina iPad.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#274

Post by CamperBob2 » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:27 AM UTC

georgespencer wrote: post #28

archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

> Upgradability was a defect of technology not being good enough for long periods The other thing to consider is that the same applies to repairing technology. Why are we putting resource into catering for the tiny minority of a given product which experience mechanical failures which we can fix? 90% of BlackBerry users will never change the battery on their device. 100% of BlackBerries have a stupid door on the back…

The economics of replacing an entire device are finally starting to make sense.

Exactly. The distinction between a "device" and a "component" is no longer particularly interesting or important. We're dealing with pieces of the 2001 monolith here, for better or worse.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#275

Post by CamperBob2 » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:31 AM UTC

raverbashing wrote: post #31

archgrove wrote: post #7

The argument doesn't really hold up, as we're only given two choices: Upgradable, or amazing screen. If there was a third, "Upgradable and amazing screen" with the applicable price/weight tradeoffs, then the "we can choose" view would be more tenable. Regardless, the lack of upgradability isn't something that bugs me. My last two Apple laptops were "upgradable", but all I ever did was throw some RAM in there. The sub…

Yeah, but really, the thing is, the growth curve is bending down Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years. Even a 5 year computer (with some upgrades) is good for doing what 99% of the people do today (internet) So chances are upgrades today are moot. Unless you're hitting the limits constantly like video editing, compiling software, etc

Processors have barely became faster in the last couple of years.

That's true in the low/mid-range market, but the high end is a different story. A Sandy/Ivy Bridge chip with 4+ cores is ridiculously fast compared to everything else. Meanwhile, today's low-end CPUs are no faster than the mid-market parts of 5 years ago.

The gap between the low and high end of the CPU performance spectrum causes problems for those of us who have to figure out what to target with new products.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#276

Post by jcoder » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:43 AM UTC

jcoder wrote: post #171

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means: > unserviceable — adjective > not in working order or fulfilling its function adequately; unfit for use. Is the submitter arguing that the closed nature of the machine prevents it from fulfilling it's function, or did they just decide to change the original title which used accurate wording ("Unfixable, Unhackable") on a whim?

Excellent! Looks like a mod took pity on the English language and changed the title to match the linked article.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#277

Post by voodoochilo » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 2:58 AM UTC

i like the look & feel of apple products. they are really great.

on the other hand i would never buy one of those i/macThings because i always saw them as prisons. hardware, software and mind prisons: "you can do it the apple way or you can't do it at all". sorry apple, i'm too long in this whole computer thing to accept a prison - how pretty it might look - as a product.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#278

Post by wtallis » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 3:25 AM UTC

cheald wrote: post #272

illamint wrote: post #85

I've always been in the camp that rarely replaces the battery in my Mac laptops, especially with the new LiPo batteries. It's not like they're NiCads that need replacing every month (I remember having a stack of batteries for my Powerbook Duo). Additionally, in the past, the only other components I've replaced have been drives (adding an SSD) and memory (upgrading to the max amount supported by the board). In this ca…

So, what you're saying is that 640kb should be enough for everyone, at least until next year's WWDC, when Apple releases a new $2000 laptop?

The parts that will be bottlenecking performance are parts that you wouldn't be able to upgrade in any normal laptop. The GPU is the most underwhelming part of the machine, because it can't keep up with the high resolution of the display. The resolution may also cause the CPU to be a bottleneck for some tasks that aren't totally offloaded to the GPU.

On the other hand, 16GB of RAM is plenty for quite some time, and the CPU's integrated memory controller can probably only handle 32GB at most, so offering standard SO-DIMM slots wouldn't really do that much to extend the usability of the machine. It's pretty much the same for the SSD: you can't get much faster without updating the SATA controller on the chipset, and 768GB will be a reasonable amount of storage for a laptop until the entertainment indrusty can settle on a standard for what to do with all the extra pixels on that display.

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#279

Post by reneherse » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 4:14 AM UTC

ajross wrote: post #114

tjoff wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, the stock specs of the Macbook Retina will be fine for even power users for years; almost certainly the life of a laptop. When the battery dies it will be worthless as a laptop . For a power user that means you are forced to buy a replacement way sooner than you'd want. Just yet another reason for why it is so obvious that apple does mainstream hardware, the sad part is that people confuse it with quality…

The battery is glued in, but apparently it is replaceable via factory service. No, I don't know what that means either (maybe they replace the plastic case part with it?).

Judicious use of a heat gun, I'm guessing, to soften the glue.

Ha, wouldn't it be great if the batteries were held in place with something like those 3M Command strips, which hold fast until you pull on one edge?

Re: The New MacBook Pro: Unfixable, Unhackable, Untenable

#280

Post by __float » Sat, Jun 16, 2012, 4:36 AM UTC

dman wrote: post #170

taligent wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about ? The battery IS replaceable just not by you. And I hardly think saving an hour at an Apple Store once every 3 years is worth having a substantially thicker device.

How long before we hit the - The device is programmable, just not by you.

Developers that write apps to fill the App Store give people a reason to buy their products in the first place. This is paranoid nonsense.