The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community • Hacker News Board

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#271

Post by ChartMaster22 » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:23 PM UTC

gary_0 wrote: post #214

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

A lot of the things people used to do on the Internet for fun, they now do for money or "points" (or the subconscious desire to do for money if they become successful enough). In the past, things you posted online tended to get a small number of manual responses from people you had a chance of forming an actual relationship with. Now, a good deal of interaction is mediated by a corporate algorithm (or an up/downvote…

You could extend this even further to discussions about media that was traditionally used to escape, like sports, movies, even books. A lot of interactions regarding sports is focused on "advanced analytics" and highlighting obscure data points above all else, e.g., Team X is the fourth team on the West coast since 1970 to score Y points through N games. People rarely talk about how much they enjoy a movie, but everyone is quick to discuss box office numbers and Rotten Tomatoes scores. Books too now have an entire subculture associated with their economic framing ("buy books from local bookstores!") rather than actual discussions of the material.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#272

Post by TylerE » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:25 PM UTC

AlwaysRock wrote: post #227

phil21 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. I am no fan of religion having grown up in an exceedingly religious environment. But it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on. We seem to be doing it w…

> he primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on I just don't think that is true for or to many, likely most, religious people. Community is an aspect but at its core it's a religion. You can't be a part of the community without believing, or at least pretending to believe, in the religion.

What you’re describing is basically Unitarianism.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#273

Post by ChartMaster22 » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #56

weberer wrote: post #21

I've noticed an uptick recently of large brands to start referring to themselves as "The [Brand] Community". The author pointed out Youtube here (who in an Orwellian manner calls their ToS "community guidelines") but I've also seen it with many other multi-million dollar companies such as Reddit, Twitter, etc. Young people today are reaching out for real support structures, but only receiving manipulation from corpor…

> I've noticed an uptick recently of large brands to start referring to themselves as "The [Brand] Community" I don't think I've ever seen that. What I have seen is non-sponsored people referring to "the [brand] community" or "the [product] community" as a shorthand way of saying they discuss brand or product with other people with that shared interest on a dedicated Discord server or forum. The Sega community, the F…

The official forum for SAP users is called the "SAP Community"[0]. I've seen it in other corporate places too, but this was the first occurrence which came to mind.

[0] https://community.sap.com/

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#274

Post by y-c-o-m-b » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

diputsmonro wrote: post #170

nradov wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a weird mistake among young people in thinking of Republicans versus Democrats as enemies to be shunned rather than the "loyal opposition" who just happen to have a different perspective. Becoming a political tribalist cuts out about half your social opportunities.

I respect that viewpoint and would be happy to adopt it in different times. But it's not as simple as political tribalism. For example - Several of my close friends are trans. For the last decade or so, Republicans have been viciously attacking trans people and several states are actively taking away their rights. The entire right wing media ecosystem uses every chance they can to demonize trans people in the new cul…

> How can I fault them for having a gut reaction to not engage with Republicans? And if someone is still happy to call themselves a Republican after all this hate, I think that reflects something about their character.

Yes and sometimes it's worth peeling back the layers to find out why they are embodying that character. An offensive strategy creates a defensive response, nothing will ever get resolved that way; it only creates more hostility. Instead, I invest time into knowing what makes that person so stubbornly that way while re-asserting the fact that I do not hold the same values. In at least a few of those cases, those people turned around to become more open to the LGBTQ+ community despite still holding onto their Republican status. That's a win in my book because it's slowly getting them to think more independently.

One of my friends was homophobic and would often make homophobic slurs "he's wearing f*g sandals". Instead of telling him he's a bad person or laugh along with him to avoid making things uncomfortable, I simply reiterate that I have no issues with people identifying as gay because what people do in their lives is none of my business. I let him know that I've made friends with gay men and never had one make me uncomfortable or feel like they overstepped boundaries; I know that idea is sometimes what makes straight men afraid of gay men. It took some time, but one day he finally let out that he had a weird uncle that would touch little boys and that's what he associates the LGBTQ+ community with. To which I gently pointed out why it's irrational. He's finally starting to come around now. Recently he'd been heard saying he's ok if his daughter ever turned out to be a lesbian. Small step in the right direction...

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#275

Post by TylerE » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #239

phil21 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. I am no fan of religion having grown up in an exceedingly religious environment. But it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on. We seem to be doing it w…

> The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. In the US, it's been a slow process over 35 years, since 1991.[1] England and Wales are much further along - believers are below 50%. But Islam is on the way up in the UK, at 6%. The high-intensity religions, the ones that require religious activity once a day or more, seem t…

The rise of Islam in UK is due to immigration from Islamic countries, not natives converting.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#276

Post by itishappy » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:26 PM UTC

lawlessone wrote: post #241

StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

Customer success stories are free advertising.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#277

Post by flappyeagle » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:27 PM UTC

autoexecbat wrote: post #253

lawlessone wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

They probably have some internal churn targets to hit, else people will start to figure out that the app isn't worth their time and try a different one

It creates a much worse problem actually. Why have a committed relationship when you can always press a button to look at hotties and have a pull at the sex slot machine?

If they design the system right, their audience just won't marry or have long term stable relationships

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#278

Post by itishappy » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:27 PM UTC

KittenInABox wrote: post #261

lawlessone wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

It might not be dating sites. I've heard of people in WoW guilds dating back in the day.

I have a friend who met her husband on an old Dance Dance Revolution forum!

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#279

Post by saulpw » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:28 PM UTC

diputsmonro wrote: post #240

saulpw wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people who vote Republican in private, and they are different from those who loudly proclaim their Republicanism to everyone they encounter. It might be a shame that the private Republicans vote how they do, but that doesn't have to affect their ability to engage with trans people, or vice versa. So I would say the problem is not the ideological divide per se, but the 'identity' politics which makes both si…

> ...but that doesn't have to affect their ability to engage with trans people, or vice versa. I disagree. How am I supposed to trust and feel safe around someone who knowingly voted for a politician who loudly campaigned on removing my rights and demonizing my very existence? A politician who supports an esoteric policy that disadvantages me in some way is entirely different than one who loudly and plainly says that…

Bingo.

I'm afraid, internet stranger, that you are part of the problem here. The original topic for this thread was about "community" and the mental health crisis. Community brings diverse people into contact with each other, which fosters communication and thus has the potential to heal division and increase empathy.

Do you not realize that a lot of people think that abortion is literally murder? That voting for the pro-choice candidate will kill more babies each year than there are trans people? Regardless of how correct you think they are, they also think this is a matter of rights and safety, of life and death. It may be hard to understand, but they believe this as strongly and fervently as you believe what you do.

Now you tell me, without some mechanism to bring people of such disparate views together, how does this resolve? An acrimonious dissolution into a red nation and a blue nation? A civil war in which we both try to snuff out opposing views with violence? (Wouldn't that be ironic?)

At best, you want your side to win, in perpetuity, until the current generation of bad-ists has died off and your views prevail. But as we see, that doesn't happen. The "bad" views continue to be transmitted from generation to generation, fomented by political opportunists, and then we are at constant risk of "their side" prevailing in perpetuity. You think 2028 or 2032 will be any better?

The only way people change their minds is by coming into contact with other people with different viewpoints over a long period of time. But that involves actual relationships, not beating someone into submission with well-reasoned arguments. (Think about how well that works on you!) And you can't have any kind of relationship if you dismiss a citizen out-of-hand because of how they voted.

So you want to make a real difference? Stop being so loud about who you can't be friends with. Don't ask your co-workers about their politics; it's a waste of energy. Talk with your relatives about their actual problems, and steer the conversation away from political rhetoric. Pretend like you want to be a part of humanity instead of apart from it.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#280

Post by mschuster91 » Fri, Aug 02, 2024, 6:29 PM UTC

rangerelf wrote: post #233

jamil7 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s pretty reasonable to expect people with cars to pay for parking?

I don't think so; the streets are paid for by whatever vehicular taxes, the sidewalks are paid for by property taxes, there's income and sales taxes for additional financing; charging for parking is just adding salt to the wound. In fact... hear me out. It might be that, those that own the paid private parking lots in high traffic areas exacerbate the parking issues in contested areas, creating pressure on free parki…

> and voilá, no more free parking anywhere.

Well... yes, that is precisely what's needed to wean America off its unhealthy dependence on cars.

Come over here to Europe, visit our cities where you can actually walk on a sidewalk, where you can live without a car just fine because everything you need can be reached safely on foot, by bike or with public transport.