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Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

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Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#271

Post by thaumasiotes »

BoringTimesGang wrote: post #268
thaumasiotes wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These athletes plan their whole training and fitness regime for years so that they are at their absolute best at this particular day. The only way this could actually happen is if they intentionally sandbag their performance starting several years in advance -- and continuing indefinitely -- which would prevent them from qualifying for the Olympics in the first place. It's not a possibility.

Or it could happen that the training, diet and injury-avoidance regime for long term success is different from that for short term optimisation. As it is for many, many sports.

All right. The 2020 Olympics were canceled and a replacement event was held in 2021. According to this theory, there should have been a shocking drop in personal records set at the 2021 event. Was there?

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#272

Post by BoringTimesGang »

beloch wrote: post #121

If this is a "slow" pool, then should we toss world records from "fast" pools? There are a lot of other events where factors affecting performance aren't completely controlled. Perhaps comparing records across different times and places is meaningless.

>Perhaps comparing records across different times and places is meaningless.

This is a line of thought that leads to the consideration that sports as are whole are rationally meaningless. That leads to hobbies being meaningless. That leads to emotions and ethics being meaningless.

You can't apply rationality to explain why people care about things. But people do care about it, so it matters.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#273

Post by BoringTimesGang »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #271
BoringTimesGang wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it could happen that the training, diet and injury-avoidance regime for long term success is different from that for short term optimisation. As it is for many, many sports.

All right. The 2020 Olympics were canceled and a replacement event was held in 2021. According to this theory, there should have been a shocking drop in personal records set at the 2021 event. Was there?

No, that's according to a theory to which you've added a strange caveat that a year is insufficient advance knowledge to know how to peak, despite annual world championships - and them often being the reason a competitor knows they're going to the Olympics at all.

Allow me to be equally facetious: according to your theory, Lamine Yamal is currently doing the same training he'd be doing deep into a season. Which is impressive, because his Instagram page currently suggests he's on holiday in another country.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#274

Post by BoringTimesGang »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #270
BoringTimesGang wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The motivation of a commute is not comparable to the motivation of a swimmer in 4th place of a medal event, etc.

So what? Is the motivation of a swimmer in 2nd place in a non-Olympic event comparable? Is the motivation of a swimmer who wants to work toward the Olympics comparable? Is the motivation of a swimmer trying out for the Olympics comparable? Every Olympic athlete, with the possible exception of the Jamaican bobsled team, has been equally motivated at dozens or hundreds of officially-measured points in the recent past.…

Well, for one thing, world records don't get ratified in a local pool.

And athletes are competent enough to achieve the time needed for qualification without going all-out. Look at the finish times of the heats. Pan Zhanle was over a second slower.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#275

Post by Scarblac »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #250
Scarblac wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These athletes plan their whole training and fitness regime for years so that they are at their absolute best at this particular day. Tbh I don't do much of that sort of thing for my grocery store trips at all.

> These athletes plan their whole training and fitness regime for years so that they are at their absolute best at this particular day. The only way this could actually happen is if they intentionally sandbag their performance starting several years in advance -- and continuing indefinitely -- which would prevent them from qualifying for the Olympics in the first place. It's not a possibility.

Sure, there could be multiple peaks. That doesnt really subtract from my argument that this isn't a day like any other for these athletes, form and fitness wise.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#277

Post by thaumasiotes »

BoringTimesGang wrote: post #273
thaumasiotes wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All right. The 2020 Olympics were canceled and a replacement event was held in 2021. According to this theory, there should have been a shocking drop in personal records set at the 2021 event. Was there?

No, that's according to a theory to which you've added a strange caveat that a year is insufficient advance knowledge to know how to peak, despite annual world championships - and them often being the reason a competitor knows they're going to the Olympics at all. Allow me to be equally facetious: according to your theory, Lamine Yamal is currently doing the same training he'd be doing deep into a season. Which is im…

> No, that's according to a theory to which you've added a strange caveat that a year is insufficient

I'm not the one who specified multiple years.

You're making my point. Scarblac claimed people set personal records at the Olympics because they plan to set that record years in advance, adopting a personal regimen with the goal that their performance before the Olympics won't be as good as their performance during the Olympics, because that would mean an embarrassing failure to set a personal record.

You're saying that (1) that can't happen, because people don't know they're going to be at the Olympics years in advance; and (2) the personal records result from short-term efforts, not long-term efforts.

And you're saying that, in particular, people don't know they'll be going to the Olympics at all until they see their own results from a recent high-stakes competition in the same event.

So... why aren't they devoting the same short-term efforts towards their performance in the Olympic qualifiers, or towards other annual competitions for their sport?

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#278

Post by will1am »

samldev wrote: post #5

I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…

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Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#279

Post by rightbyte »

samldev wrote: post #5

I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…

> Bummer that it makes the meet feel slow but at least it generally affects all the swimmers equally

Shouldn't the middle swimmer be worse off with "fast" pools? There would be less waves on the side lanes, compared to a "slow" pool where there are reflections.

Re: Is a 'slow' swimming pool impeding world records?

#280

Post by myworkinisgood »

samldev wrote: post #5

I was a college swimmer, qualified for Olympic Trials in 2012 and 2016. There are absolutely slow and fast pools. It basically comes down to two things: 1. The depth - which is only 7ft in Paris, unusually shallow for a competition pool. 2. The sides. Does the water spill over the sides into the gutters, or smash into a wall and bounce back, creating more chop. A trained eye can see all the swimmers in Paris struggli…

All swimmers are affected equally so I don't see a problem.
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