New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#271

Post by masklinn » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:20 PM UTC

LaSombra wrote: post #263

idspispopd wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're having an argument with a bunch of InstantExperts™ who are clearly motivated by other sources or tied to luddite ideologies. They're more interested in presenting Apple as an evil empire because this fits their personal objectives. Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits…

Some of us don't like to be extorted by Apple when looking for BTO options.

16GB RAM upgrade on the new macbook pro: $200

2x8GB SODIMM kit at crucial, $150.

Yes, extorsion is exactly the word I'd have used in this position, indeed.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#272

Post by masklinn » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:23 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #231

ctdonath wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptops usually last me 3-4 years, at least, after a hard drive and RAM upgrade, as well as a new battery. New hard drive. New RAM. New battery. Probably want a new CPU, but that's not upgradable. Ditto display. Can't add Thunderbolt, USB3, or whatever nifty new interface. May as well just get a new computer at the 2+ year point, seeing as you replaced half of it and want to replace the other half. "This here's a…

I still don't like laptops because their still slow and individual components have different upgrade cycles, and the keyboard and battery lifespan limits the value of upgrades anyway. GPU's and CPU don't have synchronized release cycles, let alone RAM and SSD's. Saying up upgrade all the components on the same time frame does not mean you can't get the new GPU for a year before the next CPU upgrade shows up. PS: By s…

> I still don't like laptops

As is your right of course, all computers are sets of tradeoffs and if the tradeoffs don't fit you, get an other machine.

Hell, you could even like both. I like my desktop because it's fast, has a huge screen and has enough power to play games at high resolution without stuttering... on the other hand, I'd have a hard time bringing it to the office or using it in the train. So I've also got a good laptop.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#273

Post by nihar » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:26 PM UTC

gouranga wrote: post #105

biafra wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The battery is easily replaceable. If you know how to use a screwdriver. Is that too much to ask?

Err, it's glued in which is considerably worse: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Displ... Actually, looking through the entire teardown, I think the battery being glued in is worse than anything as levering it out is likely to cause the Li-Ion cells to blow up. Also consider how hard it is recycling that machine! Their summary: 1. Proprietary pentalobe screws prevent you from gaining access to a…

I'd take the iFixit recommendation with a sack of salt. Their business model relies on being able to sell components and tools that can open up laptops. With the new Retina MBP, they can not do much, hence they are bound to rate it lower.

Apple's task is to create a laptop with the features they think users will like, and not have to worry about the support for third party component vendors. If you think iFixit is your source for recommendation, don't buy the MBP. :)

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#274

Post by masklinn » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:29 PM UTC

AlisdairO wrote: post #145

stevejabs wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your logic here is very flawed. I can name a ton of people who've owned only 1 or 2 iPhones since they've released. However that isn't even what I'm arguing about. Apple makes (in my opinion) a very smart decision to limit some features to only newer phones. Think about when iOS4 came out, it was only fully supported for the iPhone 4 and 3GS. Backgrounding on the 3G was a nightmare to memory and performance..…

I suspect that that he's talking more about the update to the 3G that rendered the phone almost unusably slow for a substantial proportion of users. Unfortunately they never did bother to fix it.

> Unfortunately they never did bother to fix it.

As a former owner of a 3G, they did (attempt) with iOS 4.2.1, which significantly improved the situation over the absolutely dreadful 4.0 and 4.1 series. It wasn't back to 3.2 levels by any means (there's only so much you can do when the phone had barely 30MB of RAM headroom when released — and yes, I think AAPL are stingy fuckers on their RAM, the original iPad looks like it has the exact same issue with iOS 6) but it did make the phone work again.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#275

Post by pasbesoin » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:37 PM UTC

socialist_coder wrote: post #249

tincansandtwine wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically in reply to the battery: I work in an enterprise environment where Macs make up about 50-60% of the installed machines. Of these, about 30-40% are laptops. In my experience, Mac laptop batteries have a high rate of failure, higher than our significantly more dated PC hardware. With the most recent revs, replacing the battery has become a huge problem, since relatively new hardware (1-2 years old) is now…

You should tell your users to unplug their Macbooks more often. If you leave them plugged in 99% of the time the battery will fail a lot faster. It should drain and recharge every once a while.

At this point, this should be a configurable option in the hardware and system software. Configurable, so that if you want to use it, you can tell it when. (E.g. I work from home on Sundays, so run from battery down to n percent charge before switching on recharging. And/or alert me when I exceed the recommended runtime between charging cycles. Etc.)

I suspect, however, that the cost/benefit -- from the manufacturers' perspective -- for implementing this is not favorable.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#276

Post by ebrenes » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:39 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #265

kamaal wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Since the overwhelming bulk of computer users(including pro users) have no interest in fiddling with their computer specs post purchase, Apple are simply making a product that fits the market. No one here is saying we tear down our laptops and assemble them back three times a day. But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Why, you…

> But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Historically, Apple tends to be pretty good on support worth the price. If something like a RAM chip is toast, they'll usually replace the board, or even the whole machine.

Not to mention that you do not get that level of support around the world. If you happen to be outside of the US when the RAM fails, you're shit out of luck, and looking at several weeks without a computer, even if it's under warranty.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#277

Post by Xylakant » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:41 PM UTC

dordoka wrote: post #147

Xylakant wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, not only driver development but also controller development. SATA is a standard where you can go buy the standard components. The connector probably has the same data lanes as a SATA connector, just a different form factor. Most of the space saving come from not having an enclosure like harddrives do - something which only words with SSDs since they have no moving parts and are thus dust-resistant.

Yep, AnandTech did a review analyzing the SSD connector from the Air. Check it out: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5854/asus-zenbook-ssd-and-appl...

Thanks, that pretty much confirms what I've been writing. Same data lines, different connector layout. The comparison makes for an interesting read.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#278

Post by pasbesoin » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:42 PM UTC

"Right" or "wrong", Apple has been and is in the course of accruing all marginal expenses to its bottom line.

Now, if you want "maxed storage", you'd better buy it at the time of purchase of the unit, from Apple, at Apple's price.

You may agree or disagree; regardless, one should remain cognizant of the fact and how it contributes to Apple's monolithic presence within its segment of the market.

P.S. This is not to discount the relevance of design decisions that limit physical accessibility: Slimness, edge-to-edge glass, etc., etc.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#279

Post by excuse-me » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:46 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #269

excuse-me wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively they have made an expensive professional tool into a disposable consumer gadget.

How is it any more of a "disposable gadget" than the previous generation which has all the same soldered components but the RAM, exactly? My current machine got its RAM upgraded once, the day I bought it, and will never see an other RAM upgrade in its life because I'm at the chipset's capacity. It's in the exact same position as the new mbp. Has it suddenly become a "disposable computer gadget" where it was an "expen…

According to the post you can't replace the drive or the battery either.

Re: New Apple Macbook Pro RAM is soldered to the motherboard | Ian Chilton

#280

Post by pooriaazimi » Wed, Jun 13, 2012, 5:46 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #270

masklinn wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But if something like a RAM gets toast on my machine, I would like to get that replaced instead of replacing the whole machine. Historically, Apple tends to be pretty good on support worth the price. If something like a RAM chip is toast, they'll usually replace the board, or even the whole machine.

If you're within warranty. If it's more than a year old (or three if you buy AppleCare), then you're on the hook for a whole new motherboard instead of a commodity stick of RAM.

Not necessarily. A colleague of friend of mine's son (!) in Canada had a 2 year, 11 months old MacBook Pro (before unibody). He didn't have an AppleCare or anything, nor the idiot used Time Machine. He spilled wine all over his MBP and it died. He brought it to an Apple store and told them that he knows he's an idiot, and his warranty is long due, and would be happy to pay if they could just restore his hard drive for him because otherwise he would lose 3 years of data.

I'm told that the next day, he went to the store and they gave him a new, top-of-the-line 15" Unibody MacBook Pro with all his data preloaded on it. I have no way of proving that this thing actually has happened (but no reason to believe my friend was lying; as he's a respected and very honest man). This is not what always happens, but Apple is rich, and they know if they treat their customers well, they'll be customers again AND all their relatives & friends would be tempted to try Macs if they knew they could get a royal support like that. So, it's not a philanthropic thing, they do it for their business, but as they're very rich they are more generous than other manufacturers.

And just one other anecdote: another friend of mine's MacBook Pro died suddenly (no AppleCare either). Sent it to an Apple Store and they changes motherboard, RAMs and HDD free of charge.