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Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

autoweek.com

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Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#271

Post by bluefirebrand »

zehaeva wrote: post #251
bluefirebrand wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If all vehicles are limited in the same way I am uncertain how this could even happen This won't happen unless it becomes illegal to drive un-limited vehicles entirely though People will drive older un-limited vehicles, or import un-limited cars from elsewhere, or buy limited cars and jailbreak them... You're starting with a flawed premise and then concluding what you prefer

You're adding on a whole lot of edge cases onto an edge and coming to a conclusion that you think is best. Some guy is shutting you out of the lane next to you, slow down and merge behind them.

Speeding up to merge with traffic that is moving faster than you is not an edge case :/

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#272

Post by tech_ken »

stavros wrote: post #63

Leaving aside the concerns about the tech not working well, I'm really not a fan of this pre-crime stuff. This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws. Things like this lead to cultural ossification and are a nightmare scenario for me.

> This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws

Is having a speed-limit in the first place 'pre-crime prevention'? Regulating technology that can have public health implications is standard for governments, so to me it seems normal that they might site this regulation in the vehicle itself, rather than at usage-time. Is requiring cars to have like an ABS system preventing users from committing the crime of vehicular manslaughter? Or is it protecting the pedestrian from being killed by a negligent driver?

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#273

Post by stavros »

tech_ken wrote: post #272
stavros wrote: post #63

Leaving aside the concerns about the tech not working well, I'm really not a fan of this pre-crime stuff. This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws. Things like this lead to cultural ossification and are a nightmare scenario for me.

> This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws Is having a speed-limit in the first place 'pre-crime prevention'? Regulating technology that can have public health implications is standard for governments, so to me it seems normal that they might site this regulation in the vehicle itself, rather than at usage-time. Is requiring cars to have like an ABS…

There's no downside to ABS. There's plenty of downside to a system that blanket bans speeding, even when the operator knows better than the system and is taking a calculated risk.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#274

Post by grujicd »

hofo wrote: post #217

> Starting in 2022 all newly introduced car models in the EU have had Intelligent Speed Assist (ISA) installed, but now all new vehicles must feature them. Huh? What’s the difference between “installed” and “featured“ here?

I think the difference is between "only new models" and "all new vehicles". So previously you could buy a new car, just model from a year or two ago without this tech. Now these cars can't be sold any more.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#275

Post by lolinder »

novagameco wrote: post #138
galdosdi wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I stay to the right too unless passing or exiting to the left, etc, for the reasons you said and others too (the right lane has a shoulder next to it, increasing options in an emergency) Still gets you passed a lot if you're unnecessarily slow though. If the prevailing speed is a speed I feel unsafe going, then sure, I'll accept the passing. But if the prevailing speed feels safe -- it might just be 5 MPH over t…

Well 5mph isn't really speeding; as far I know they set the speed limits 5mph lower than they really are (e.g: 55mph means 60mph). But trust me, the imaginary police are very much not imaginary. I got a couple speeding tickets before I decided I wasn't going to deal with the courts ever again. Now, I do the speed limit. I see cops everywhere on the highways in my state and they definitely will pull you over going 10-…

> Well 5mph isn't really speeding; as far I know they set the speed limits 5mph lower than they really are

See, and I was taught 10 mph lower, and that has been my experience driving in many states—8 mph over and you're fine, but much higher than that and you'll get pulled over.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#276

Post by emporas »

gambiting wrote: post #9

This is one example of legislation that mandates fantasy tech that doesn't exist. You'd think that something as simple as speed limiter should be very easy to implement, and it couldn't be further from the truth - watch any review of a car with this tech and every reviewer will complain that it's not the presence of the system that's the problem, it's the fact that it constantly gets the speed limit wrong. Either rea…

> This is one example of legislation that mandates fantasy tech that doesn't exist.

If the goal is to increase the minimal cost of any vehicle which drives on a road then the worse the legislation is, the better it serves the purpose. Incumbents gain a lot by obstructing any newcomer from capturing market share.

Also, if cars are moving towards the direction of driving themselves, it goes without saying that an accurate speed limit will be one of the first functionalities to implement.

Given that cars 95% of the time are not moving anywhere, then self driving cars could reduce the car consumption by 10 times, an order of magnitude less. Car ownership is one of the biggest financial bubbles out there. By limiting access to newcomers, which will implement self-driving, they keep the bubble going.

See also, tariffs to BYD, from USA and Europe. Imagine people using BYD (or another car) and installing custom software, open source, auditable and extensible. As soon as a good combination of sensors and software is implemented which drives itself, then anyone can download and install it to his own car. Then the bubble will pop, and politicians will have failed to their mission.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#277

Post by masterj »

akira2501 wrote: post #195
masterj wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is the category of "deaths from speeding" large enough to justify any action whatsoever? Cars kill 40k+ people in the US each year, and speed (really momentum) is a large factor in the lethality of crashes. > Why does the Autobahn still not have speed limits on large parts of the road and why does this not cause massive problems? It's designed for these speeds. Most speeding issues do not occur on highways, but on…

> Cars kill 40k+ people in the US each year Not quite. 8k of those are motorcycles. 8k are pedestrians. Half of those are drivers who had drugs or alcohol in their system. One quarter are male drivers under 25. Most fatalities happen at night. > and speed (really momentum) is a large factor in the lethality of crashes. Not quite. It's mostly lack of seatbelt usage. > Most speeding issues do not occur on highways, but…

> Not quite. 8k of those are motorcycles. 8k are pedestrians.

I don't know if you know this, but if a car kills someone else not in a car, they still die.

https://twitter.com/VisionZeroYVR/status/1650630980062052353

> Not quite. It's mostly lack of seatbelt usage.

I said "speed (really momentum) is a large factor in the lethality of crashes."

"For every 10 mph of increased speed, the risk of dying in a crash doubles." https://www.emcinsurance.com/losscontrol/insights-d/2020/08/...

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#278

Post by comprev »

josephcsible wrote: post #239
comprev wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't stop reckless driving on roads where the legal limit is way above the practical limit. Although I have absolutely zero stats to backup my argument, I'd say deaths on twisty country roads where the vehicle was under the legal speed limit far exceeds those on straight motorways breaking the limit.

> roads where the legal limit is way above the practical limit Can you give an example of such a road? At least in the US, I've never seen one.

Here in rural Ireland there are plenty of roads with 80km/h speed limit where even the rally stages (on closed roads) can't reach it - hence the racing!

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#279

Post by ricardobeat »

zehaeva wrote: post #240
randerson wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often find myself behind a truck that is kicking up stones or belching fumes or has a poorly secured load that looks like it could fly off. Doesn't matter if it is going the speed limit, I want to get past it.

How close do you find yourself to the truck in front of you? Safe follow distances are, At 65MPH, I'm assuming you're in the US, is approximately 300 feet. I'd be kind of shocked that you're getting stones hitting you and detectable fumes 300 feet away.

Clearly you’ve never driven in the EU. The usual follow distance here is about three meters, the “safe” one is five, any farther and you’re going to get a stream of cars overtaking you just to fill that void :)

Regarding stones and lose cargo, they would hit you even 300m away as they bounce and quickly lose speed while you’re still flying into at them at 130km/h.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#280

Post by netsharc »

gumby wrote: post #249
kodt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could make it impossible or dangerous to pass in many situations where it may be necessary to temporarily exceed the speed limit.

The EU system clearly takes this into account, beginning with an alarm and only later reducing engine power. Unless you're overtaking a dozen vehicles you're probably OK. OK, it won't help you escape the bad guys chasing you but they'll probably have the limiter too.

Maybe the cars will come with something similar to "Are you of legal age to watch porn?" dialog boxes on porn websites, but it'll be "Are you in the EU?". Or if it uses GPS, I wonder if the next thing will be a Faraday cage to surround the GPS antenna, and a GPS spoofer that tells the car it's currently located outside of the EU.
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