Boeing to plead guilty to criminal fraud charge stemming from 737 MAX crashes

Post by ionwake » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 1:28 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #152

michaelt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the ship's captain was asleep in a drunken stupor while the 17 year old helmsman crashed the ship into an iceberg, should the captain go unpunished? I feel that punishing sobriety and rewarding drunkenness is probably not a good idea, if we want to avoid our ships hitting icebergs.

A vessel's master will always leave standing orders to be followed while they're asleep. Typically these orders solve only some routine choices that were anticipated, and for anything extraordinary the master should be awoken at once and consulted. The junior watch officer should have summoned the master long before the ship hit an iceberg, if they are inattentive (e.g. they fall asleep in the warm dark of a bridge a…

Post by ionwake » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 1:29 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #152

michaelt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the ship's captain was asleep in a drunken stupor while the 17 year old helmsman crashed the ship into an iceberg, should the captain go unpunished? I feel that punishing sobriety and rewarding drunkenness is probably not a good idea, if we want to avoid our ships hitting icebergs.

A vessel's master will always leave standing orders to be followed while they're asleep. Typically these orders solve only some routine choices that were anticipated, and for anything extraordinary the master should be awoken at once and consulted. The junior watch officer should have summoned the master long before the ship hit an iceberg, if they are inattentive (e.g. they fall asleep in the warm dark of a bridge a…

Post by georgeplusplus » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 1:31 PM UTC

Post by nullindividual » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 1:32 PM UTC

justinclift wrote: post #31

Seems an extremely soft ball approach: • Under the deal, Boeing agreed to pay a $243.6 million fine and for an third-party monitor to be installed to monitor the company’s compliance. ~$240M seems pretty low for an industry where billions are commonly thrown about. • The deal spares Boeing from a trial just as the planemaker is trying to turn a corner in its safety and manufacturing crises. Sparing them from a trial…

Post by tgv » Mon, Jul 08, 2024, 1:33 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #268

tgv wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a "this looks tough, I don't feel like doing it" take. Who is responsible? As others have said, the structure of a corporation defines that. If person A has to do what person B says, then B is responsible. If B "didn't know", then B has been lacking. It also avoids sacking the "innocent people" and it sets an example for other companies. The greedy corporate culture really needs a bit of check-and-balanc…

We do however have to allow for person A intentionally hiding from person B what they are doing. Person A should check, but it is impossible to see everything so we do have to allow for person B committing fraud to hide from audits.