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Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

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Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they actually doing that? In this case people are using it for that, but I could also use small claims court to get the attention of a plumber who won't send me a quote. That doesn't mean that plumber is outsourcing to small claims court.

Theres a scale difference. Many platforms are mini countries. Hell - this article was about a tiny number of American citizens with the patience and resources to learn how to get this done. If you are in Myanmar, PHP or many other countries, you are SoL. It’s the one thing that grinds my gears on these topics. The more I see it, the more I think people are going to split these firms up.

> If you are in Myanmar, PHP or many other countries, you are SoL

Okay, but this is not the same as "outsourcing your customer service to taxpayers".

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they actually doing that? In this case people are using it for that, but I could also use small claims court to get the attention of a plumber who won't send me a quote. That doesn't mean that plumber is outsourcing to small claims court.

yes, most of the economy actually works by privatizing gains and externalizing losses. in your example it would probably be you abusing the court system for something that it is not intended for yet obligated to handle

> yes, most of the economy actually works by privatizing gains and externalizing losses.

This is a recent trope; it's not really true. Gains are the only things that are taxed. Financially, we tax gains and let investors absorb losses.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#273
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But are they actually doing that? In this case people are using it for that, but I could also use small claims court to get the attention of a plumber who won't send me a quote. That doesn't mean that plumber is outsourcing to small claims court.

I can't imagine the circumstances under which a plumber would be compelled to send you a quote. Your analogy makes no sense. What legal theory are you thinking of there?

I'm not saying they would be compelled to. The legality of quote obligations is not really what the analogy is supposed to highlight.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Re: Walmart, the other option is to just cut the aid. People won't work if they are not able to sustain themselves (calorically) on the pay. The best way to avoid these antipatterns is to stop enabling them. This is a truly horrifying, compassionless comment. You're literally suggesting starving people. Sure, cutting these programs means eventually Walmart changes their business model. But the people who suffer dur…

We don't have to make these changes all at once. I agree doing so would be somewhat disruptive. We can roll back the aid over a period of say 5 or 10 years, giving workers (and companies) time to figure out what to do. I agree it may not be tenable in a representative democracy, but my point is that means the democracy is too powerful and encroaches on fundamental liberty . Government should not have the power to red…

> We don't have to make these changes all at once. I agree doing so would be somewhat disruptive. We can roll back the aid over a period of say 5 or 10 years, giving workers (and companies) time to figure out what to do.

We don't need to give companies time to figure out what to do. We already know their solution, because it's the same playbook they've always used: change no business practices, and spend a fraction of that cost on lobbying (bribes) and propagandizing for the change to be reversed. A tiered rollout just gives them more runway to do this. And more time when workers suffer.

Instead of trying to predict what will happen based on your ivory tower economic theory, try predicting what will happen based on what has happened, i.e., reality.

Your opinion continues to be a horrifying, compassionless take: you openly admit it would "be somewhat disruptive", but the suffering of workers is a sacrifice you are willing to make for your pet ideology.

More to the point: why would we even want to give companies time to figure out what to do? They have had plenty of time to do the right thing and they chose to do the wrong thing. I'm not for punitive justice, but I'm also not particularly concerned if the solution to the problem harms those who knowingly and intentionally caused the problem.

> I agree it may not be tenable in a representative democracy, but my point is that means the democracy is too powerful and encroaches on fundamental liberty. Government should not have the power to redistribute assets in pursuit of the "general welfare", and indeed it did not until US v. Butler (1936) gave the government sweeping power to do basically anything.

Fundamental liberty applies to humans, not corporations. Corporations do not have fundamental rights, period. And just as fundamentally, when government does not limit the power of corporations, corporations step into the power void, gain too much power, and take away people's rights and liberties. Being for corporate liberty is being against human liberty, it's as simple as that.

Yes, I understand that the SCOTUS ruled that corporations are people: the SCOTUS is wrong.

Yes, I understand that corporations are made up of people. But the actions of corporations are chosen by a small, small fraction of those people, and benefit that same small fraction of people. That small fraction of people disproportionately get to exercise any rights that are granted to a corporation, often at the expense of many more people lower in the corporate pyramid. Granting freedoms to corporations is effectively the pigs in Animal Farm saying "you're all free, but some of you are freer than others" because you're granting those rights to the decision makers in the corporation and not to the workers.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theres a scale difference. Many platforms are mini countries. Hell - this article was about a tiny number of American citizens with the patience and resources to learn how to get this done. If you are in Myanmar, PHP or many other countries, you are SoL. It’s the one thing that grinds my gears on these topics. The more I see it, the more I think people are going to split these firms up.

> If you are in Myanmar, PHP or many other countries, you are SoL Okay, but this is not the same as "outsourcing your customer service to taxpayers".

If it pleases you, feel free to ignore this sentence. Instead focus your attention to the first sentences of the response.

A plumber is not a firm the size of an economy, with bad customer support.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't have to make these changes all at once. I agree doing so would be somewhat disruptive. We can roll back the aid over a period of say 5 or 10 years, giving workers (and companies) time to figure out what to do. I agree it may not be tenable in a representative democracy, but my point is that means the democracy is too powerful and encroaches on fundamental liberty . Government should not have the power to red…

> We don't have to make these changes all at once. I agree doing so would be somewhat disruptive. We can roll back the aid over a period of say 5 or 10 years, giving workers (and companies) time to figure out what to do. We don't need to give companies time to figure out what to do. We already know their solution, because it's the same playbook they've always used: change no business practices, and spend a fraction o…

My argument isn't that corporations are people. My point is that the government should never have been given the power to redistribute wealth the way it does today. It has not always had this power. And had the constitution been slightly clearer, it would not have this power today. No amount of lobbying would change that.

I am looking at reality, namely the reality of the US before the aforementioned decision giving the government broad power over the "general welfare". Society more resembled a liberal ecosystem. People were individually responsible to negotiate for their own prosperity.

It is my fundamental liberty that is being violated by forcing me to contribute to the maintenance of strangers. I would like the freedom to opt out of this mandatory insurance scheme.

It's not compassionate to force your view of compassion on others. It's tyrannical. In the vein of "If you're against gay marriage, don't get gay married": if you want to help people, contribute to charity. Don't force your views on others.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#277

The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. And soon, LLMs will be used to attempt to solve this problem again, and they will fail again. It is easy to look at the historical information in a ticketing system and make the conclusion that the vast majority of the issues can be solved by pointing the user to frequently-encountered solutions. However, t…

> The idea that customer service can be 'automated away' is dangerous, and has been proven wrong again and again. Said like someone who hasn't run a customer service function ;) I will agree in the totality. You can't automated away 100% of customer support, just like you can't automated away 100% of most human tasks. You can automated away 90%+, and get most users answers faster than trying to staff enough humans in…

I have run a couple of support operations.

Yes, you certainly can automate 90% of the support. It's the last 10% that you can't ignore. Those problems are not only more complicated to solve, they're also some of the more important problems to solve.

If 10% of Facebook's users have a problem, and 90% of those can be automated away, that's 30 million support tickets that need human intervention. They've decided just to ignore that as an issue, because it would be expensive to fix, and they can't throw software engineers at the problem.

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

> most of modern Europe

This is relatively recent, and has proven itself quite fragile. Democracies elect dictators. Dictators of powerful governments commit atrocities. There is no "don't elect dictators" solution. The only solution is to disempower the government. Also European nations are relatively small and relatively culturally homogenous. There is no functioning liberal democracy of a large multicultural state.

> All societies impose involuntary obligations

There is a vast difference between outlawing violent behaviour and mandating cooperation. The latter is indistinguishable from slavery. Free societies don't compel the cooperation of their citizens beyond the strict minimum necessary to maintain liberty itself. Even being conscripted into the army, which is slavery, can be justified if it is to defend against a foe who would destroy liberal society.

It is however categorically not justified to mandate contribution to various insurance schemes and welfare programs. There is no picking and choosing here. I want my interactions with the state to maximize for consent[1]. I want the ability to out out. I am not owed medical treatment if I'm sick. I would like the ability to choose whether to incur an obligation or not.

> freedom to do whatever the hell you want

Yes!

> no obligation to the liberty of others

No. My rights to wave my fists around end where your nose begins.

> freedom from hunger, freedom from fear, freedom from homelessness, freedom from pain

These aren't freedoms, they're obligations. Obligations on others to provide you with food and housing and emotional support (freedom from fear? really?). Obligation is exactly the thing that free people aim to be free of. Being free isn't the same thing as being taken care of. It's about being able to do whatever the hell you want, and interact with others on a consensual basis.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#279
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is the way things go, the govt had better follow its own rules first with the IRS support systems.

If only the GOP would quit gutting their funding every time they gain an ounce of power.

having worked in the IRS, they could easily be a lot more efficient if they weren't unionized. the IRS is easily by far the most mismanaged organization i've ever had the displeasure of working at

Re: Small claims court became Meta's customer service hotline

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about google just delist the fraud sites or ban their advertising? Google is making money on this...

They have proven they won't unless they are punished. You can wish it worked different, or you can accept reality and report these things, or you can live in a society full of scams. Those are your options.

They “approve” the ads… they are complicit! Maybe I’ll write my Senator.
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