How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court • Hacker News Board

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#271

Post by Dutchie987 » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 3:35 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #267

Dutchie987 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are optimizing dollars extracted per customer. Either that, or they are so incompetent designing electronics they shouldn't be allowed to.

Unfortunately, electronics design does not operate outside the bounds of economics. Given a target retail price of ~$1.25/unit -- many of these bulbs are the best design possible. The existence of poor quality products does not indicate malice -- many buyers demand low end products. Cost/quality/performance is an engineering tradeoff without a "correct" answer. The answer is up to the opinion of the customer.

I think that argument only holds when the customer is informed about those specific tradeoffs. The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't.

Buyers want cheap bulbs, they don't want crap bulbs. If that means $1.25/unit is impossible, so be it.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#272

Post by hoppyhoppy2 » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 3:35 PM UTC

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #187

navigate8310 wrote: post #10

I've had good success with tweeting the company and explaining how the problem is still unresolved.

Can someone explain the downvotes? This is still one way to get satisfaction.

>Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#273

Post by baud147258 » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 3:36 PM UTC

creshal wrote: post #126

throwaway2037 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example gorilla glass/protective glass has improved in technology, but thinner screens (for thinner devices) have eaten up the benefits of stronger tech. This is an interesting point. I didn't think about it, but it makes sense. Are there any "chonky" mobile phones with very thick cases & screens... like the Panasonic ToughBook?

A variety of manufacturers has them, CAT e.g., but even Samsung has been having a line of them for over a decade. Manufacturers also keep making phones with headphone jacks, sd slots, swappable batteries, and all the other features that people loudly insist they want in their phones, right until it comes to choosing a new phone to buy. Then they buy something thin and flimsy again and repeat the whine cycle; and ever…

what's the name of the Samsung line? I might be in the market for a new phone soon-ish

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#274

Post by denton-scratch » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

jack_riminton wrote: post #42

jopsen wrote: post #13

Asking a warranty repair on a 9 years old oven is a bit of a stretch. I doubt it'd fly in the EU.

Considering an oven is essentially just a control panel, a fan or two, some sensors and a heating element, there's no reason why these shouldn't last for decades. As long as no exotic or custom components are used they should be easy to find parts and repair too

...so they use "exotic" custom components.

Not that the controller board on a washing machine is particularly exotic; it's made from standard components. But each model of washing machine has it's own controller board, so the boards are low-volume, and ridiculously expensive. And the boards themselves are about as easy to repair as any modern PCB covered in SMDs.

I suspect the reason that white goods nowadays all have digital displays and digital control panels is that those "features" necessitate a proprietary controller board, which turns out (surprisingly! /s) to be the component most likely to fail.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#275

Post by sokoloff » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 3:37 PM UTC

dotandgtfo wrote: post #27

Tistron wrote: post #3

Does anyone know whether and how this translates to other places in the world? For me, it's the most interesting with EU/Sweden. We don't have courts like this do we?

I don't know about Sweden particularly but in Norway "Forbrukerkjøpsloven" [0] gives you up to a 5 year warranty on any items which are obviously meant to last for at least that long. For instance, shoes have a two years warranty, but a laptop or most kitchen appliances have an automatic 5 year warranty which cannot be waived. I'm not that knowledgeable about all the details here, but I've done it once for a PSU whic…

5 years feels pretty long for a laptop warranty to be honest. (I'm typing this on a 2019 Intel MBPro, but it's getting pretty long in the tooth, and if it had died already or last year, I would not have felt like I got an unreasonably short lifespan out of it.)

Do I expect a laptop to last 5 year? Yes, most of them. Do I think it's inherently problematic or that consumers were "cheated" if say 25% of laptops only last 4 years instead of 5? I do not.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#276

Post by kube-system » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 3:58 PM UTC

Dutchie987 wrote: post #271

kube-system wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, electronics design does not operate outside the bounds of economics. Given a target retail price of ~$1.25/unit -- many of these bulbs are the best design possible. The existence of poor quality products does not indicate malice -- many buyers demand low end products. Cost/quality/performance is an engineering tradeoff without a "correct" answer. The answer is up to the opinion of the customer.

I think that argument only holds when the customer is informed about those specific tradeoffs. The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. Buyers want cheap bulbs, they don't want crap bulbs. If that means $1.25/unit is impossible, so be it.

Or alternatively, the customer simply DGAF about the quality of their $1.25 purchase.

I have $1.25 bulbs in my home. I use them in unimportant locations with infrequent use. They are perfectly serviceable for this use.

> The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't.

This is a big problem for all consumer products. The root of the problem is that most consumers are wholly unqualified to be a judge of engineering quality themselves, few even know how to effectively obtain trustworthy information about quality, and those who do often value their time more than the effort required to do so. For larger purchases, some people who care to be informed will do some research, but I don't really think there's a solution for products <$500.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#277

Post by account42 » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 4:00 PM UTC

al_borland wrote: post #146

My dad usually writes the CEO and has pretty good luck getting issues resolved, with a lot less trouble than a court case.

I have had succes with that approach as well. Don't expect the CEO to answer of course but whoever gets tasked with it is usually still much better positioned to get your issue resolved than a call center drone.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#278

Post by account42 » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 4:06 PM UTC

bluefirebrand wrote: post #215

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is people keep trying to stamp the diversity out. The model in the US is nominally to have few regulations limited to things like enforcing contracts and antitrust laws and pricing major externalities, then leave the rest of it to free market competition. That isn't compatible with a model where regulators are trying to run the economy, because then the regulators get captured by industry and thwart rathe…

> The problem is people keep trying to stamp the diversity out. I'm very cynical about this "diversity is our strength" stuff In my opinion the problem is that society has been working hard to reduce "diversity" to mean different skin colors, genitals or sexual preferences, with a sprinkling of different cuisine. What most people refer to as diversity is very superficial Diversity of ideas, diversity of politics, div…

Well said. And ironically "diversity" is a topic where diverse opinions are often met with particularily hard scorn.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#279

Post by account42 » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 4:11 PM UTC

peddling-brink wrote: post #161

Y_Y wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm often guilty of missing mistakes in my own posts, but as a PSA: please proofread your posts, especially if using prediction on a phone. You can edit your post if you do so soon after posting, and sometimes the meaning isn't lost (stale matches -> stalemates) but other times it (subjectively) is. For example I don't know what "rightful" should be here.

English may not be their first language. I found the post to be perfectly understandable.

ESL commenters are perfectly capable of learning to avoid and correct mistakes. In face, in written language some kinds of errors are more common in native speakers in my experience.

Re: How to get stuff repaired when the manufacturer don't wanna: take 'em to court

#280

Post by InSteady » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 4:12 PM UTC

Dutchie987 wrote: post #271

kube-system wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, electronics design does not operate outside the bounds of economics. Given a target retail price of ~$1.25/unit -- many of these bulbs are the best design possible. The existence of poor quality products does not indicate malice -- many buyers demand low end products. Cost/quality/performance is an engineering tradeoff without a "correct" answer. The answer is up to the opinion of the customer.

I think that argument only holds when the customer is informed about those specific tradeoffs. The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality. They often aren't. Buyers want cheap bulbs, they don't want crap bulbs. If that means $1.25/unit is impossible, so be it.

> The customer will choose the cheap bulbs because they can't be sure the expensive ones are better quality.

This can't be understated. You never know with a bigger price tag if you are actually paying for a better build or just for branding + tidy profit. So you see two light bulbs with similar specs and the pictures on the box look indistinguishable.. unless you have specific experience or knowledge you are often doing yourself a favor to buy the cheaper one. Sometimes things are priced because they are actually better, but too often it is purely branding that justifies the price tag.

Not specific to lightbulbs, but I've also noticed a trend where a more expensive product with a big name and obviously more of an ad/branding budget actually is better for a few years... and then at some random date the bottom drops out and the product becomes almost indistinguishable from cheaper options while the price tag remains the same. Or even increases if they have enough market share and brand recognition.