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Are animals conscious? New research

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Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#271

Post by heikkilevanto »

slibhb wrote: post #120
lolinder wrote: post #66

> Attributing consciousness to animals based on their responses was seen as a cardinal sin. The argument went that projecting human traits, feelings, and behaviours onto animals had no scientific basis and there was no way of testing what goes on in animals’ minds. What's always been funny to me about the scientific approach to animal consciousness/emotions/empathy is that in a perfectly rational world the default as…

> The only reason why animal consciousness has been controversial historically is a religious one—the Bible has typically been read as placing humanity in a category of its own. And yet we see countless secular scientists clinging to that perspective when even a cursory glance at the evidence and a basic application of Occam's razor would suggest the opposite. It's not just the Bible. It's virtually every religion an…

> Animals didn't land on the moon or discover quantum mechanics

For most of the history, neither did humans.

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#272

Post by NayamAmarshe »

swader999 wrote: post #217

Can they think about the future, are they aware of their mortality? The degree we do seems to fundamentally set us apart.

Memory and intelligence are not the same as consciousness. Yes, we're different in the way that we use our intelligence but it doesn't prove that other beings are without consciousness.

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#274

Post by NayamAmarshe »

guilhas wrote: post #29

Should we stop eating chicken, fish, and other small animals, in favour of bigger ones like cow? That would reduce farm animal suffering by more than 80% What about the meat alternative insects? Are they conscious? If so there are people investing millions. to kill gazillion lives a year Or are they definitely "inferior"? Do we even know what suffering and consciousness is? Why did nature evolved for animals to eat e…

> Why did nature evolved for animals to eat each other?

Animals are inherently different than Humans when it comes to food choices. They do not have a choice, we do and yet, being an 'intelligent' animal does not equal to being 'wise'. Humans will kill and eat anything and everything that their senses like and that only happens when you trade sense pleasure for intelligence.

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#275

Post by NayamAmarshe »

randomdata wrote: post #191
uxcolumbo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other animals don't raise billions of other animals to cram them into factory farms, deprive them of natural surroundings, pump them full of hormones and antibiotics and then send them off to slaughterhouses to turn them into burgers and other meat products. Animals live with nature. We don't. We created our own world on top of the natural world, which we are slowly destroying. We have the brains, skills and resource…

> Other animals don't raise billions of other animals to cram them into factory farms Sure they do. For example, certain ants are known to keep livestock.

Ants don't go on insect hunts to hoard dead bodies.

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#276

Post by bongodongobob »

stoperaticless wrote: post #247
slowmovintarget wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dogs definitely have Theory of Mind. There was a study done that placed a treat in a room where the dog was instructed not to eat it. A handler was in the room with the dog. When the lights were turned out, the dogs would eat the treat, because they knew that the human couldn't see in the dark.

But sadly they dont have theory of rope.

Hilarious comment. Without fail, my neighbor's dog wraps himself around the tree within 30 minutes of being outside. It's been 2 years now, and he just can't get the hang of it.

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#277

Post by navane »

nikkwong wrote: post #258
moi2388 wrote: post #250

I’ve never understood these questions. “Are animals conscious?” Well, could you give me the definition of consciousness? No you can’t. So now you’re asking me both to define it and show if animals have it or not. Are animals aware of their surroundings? Yes. Are animals showing the behavioural signs of pain when you hurt them? Yes. Can animals direct attention? Yes. Can animals remember? Yes. Can animals learn? Yes.…

I think you're over complicating it. When people generally talk about consciousness, they're talking about the phenomenology of awareness in the present moment. It's not really hard to define. It's difficult to establish whether or not an animal is conscious in the way that it's difficult to establish whether another person is conscious. The only evidence we have for consciousness is the fact that we personally exper…

Do all people experience your version of consciousness, awareness in the present moment? Or is this overly represented among people debating whether animals have it? Some people don't have an inner monologue.

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#279

Post by rodcon »

bowsamic wrote: post #243
slibhb wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason why animal consciousness has been controversial historically is a religious one—the Bible has typically been read as placing humanity in a category of its own. And yet we see countless secular scientists clinging to that perspective when even a cursory glance at the evidence and a basic application of Occam's razor would suggest the opposite. It's not just the Bible. It's virtually every religion an…

Animals are definitely fully conscious in Buddhism

Also in Islam :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_in_Islam

Re: Are animals conscious? New research

#280

Post by NayamAmarshe »

slibhb wrote: post #121
cf100clunk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only reason why animal consciousness has been controversial historically is a religious one In your sentence I would substitute ''religious'' with other more specific terms like ''Judeo-Christian'' since Jainism and Hinduism have been talking about a continuum of consciousness in all living things for almost 3,000 years: specifically described by them as the Ātman and the Jiva. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4…

Sure but in Hinduism and Buddhism, humans are higher than animals. In general, only humans are capable of escaping samsara.

Yes, but don't forget the law of karma and how most of the humans come from animal bodies in the past life. Everybody has a chance to burn their karma as an animal with no free-will and end up with a human-birth where you do have a free-will, and intelligence to use that free-will.
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