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Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

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Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#271

Post by parpfish »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #246
_yb2s wrote: post #239

I don't understand why more adults don't have awesome hobbies... most of my childhood friends don't seem to do anything fun now as adults. I really love physical things I can do with my body as a counterbalance to working on the computer- weight lifting, woodworking, and sailing add a lot of value to my life, and have gotten me outdoors and in shape. I'm currently building a wood sailboat in my garage together with m…

Yeah, sure can name a lot of friends that consume: mainly gaming and streaming. Has the curve on the creator/consumer axis shifted in recent times or has it always been skewed toward consuming? Or is there instead a social axis that has been waning recently? I'm thinking of the once popular Bridge card game or bowling leagues as examples...

One of my theories is that the internet and socialmedia exposes everybody to examples of elite talents and raises the bar too much for performance based hobbies. Playing the piano poorly can be a fun and worthwhile hobby even if you’ll never be as good as the people you see online.

And then there a collecting based hobbies* which have been ruined by being able buy rare things from anywhere in a click. Now getting a stamp collection isn’t a pursuit, it’s just an afternoon on eBay with your credit card.

*one exception here is birdwatching, which I’ve anecdotally seen a huge increase in. Almost all my friends are aware of Merlin and many Hanna the habit to stop to ask “what’s that” if they see an unfamiliar bird

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#272

Post by beryilma »

foobarian wrote: post #159
ravenstine wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a level or two down from the abstraction of company size, crafting hobbies are also a reprieve from the tyranny of linters. So many programmers today believe that code is always better when it all looks identical. Consistency is a good thing, but not when it's expected to be absolute. Programming should actually allow for creativity, and where you decide to add spaces and newlines can actually add subtle but impor…

I curse the inferior linter formatting and at the same time would not have it any other way because why? Some diva would come in and put up a MR reformatting half the code base to their preferred way, mixed in with the actual change they are making and I would have to hunt for the actual changes in the reformatting noise. And then we would spend half a day arguing about it like in the good old days. Fast forward six…

In my experience, it is not the divas who are the problem, but inexperienced developers (especially ones from non-CS background) who have a weird/no sense of formatting. I have seen my share of strange, inconsistent formatting in code reviews with junior developers.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#273

Post by jimbokun »

vincnetas wrote: post #97
Aeolun wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doing the boring job at all is a waste of 50+% of your waking hours? By all means, do it if it makes the remaining 50% more enjoyable, but I think it’s possible to have both. I want to have my cake and eat it too.

But you know, at the end there should be someone who is cleaning the toilets and taking out garbage. You eating the cake and having it is a bit selfish.

I think it was Joel Spolsky, who said one of his responsibilities as CEO of a new startup was cleaning the toilets until they could afford to pay a janitor.

I thought it was a good reminder to have an attitude of just seeing what needs to be done and doing it.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#274

Post by Cerium »

cdchn wrote: post #218
ravenstine wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a level or two down from the abstraction of company size, crafting hobbies are also a reprieve from the tyranny of linters. So many programmers today believe that code is always better when it all looks identical. Consistency is a good thing, but not when it's expected to be absolute. Programming should actually allow for creativity, and where you decide to add spaces and newlines can actually add subtle but impor…

"No pre-push linter" is the hill I'll die on.

Could you elaborate? My team is currently looking at adding a pre-push linter to replace the annoying CI linter.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#275

Post by jimbokun »

smackeyacky wrote: post #119
usrnm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with doing a boring job for a lot of money and then getting all the fun elsewhere? This actually seems to be the best way to do it to me

Because it’s soul destroying knowing your talents are wasted for 40+ hours a week

There's something especially soul destroying about doing work you know is useless and meaningless:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf3SGGAJWbA

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#276

Post by InitialLastName »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #266
InitialLastName wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where you decide to add spaces and newlines can actually add subtle but important communication as to the significance of a particular part of one's code. Isn't this part of the problem? If the purpose of code is to be understandable, the important communications shouldn't also be subtle. Your intention that the extra empty line before a block of code signals "This is the important part" is likely to be entirely lo…

> Much better to leave a comment saying "there's a subtle but important thing going on here". Sure, but don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. Well-meaning engineers frequently don't document their code at all. It's why I advocate programmers at least use descriptive variable names and function names; what I call "self-documenting code". It still falls short of well-documented code but, as I say, gets you "good"…

For sure, well-written code often doesn't need comments to explain itself; my point was that "there's an extra space here so you know this bit is important" is pretty much the opposite of that.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#277

Post by pojzon »

I like how everyone talks here only about how much spare time they have on prpeuctive things.

Some ppl simply dont have money to start:

- woodworking

- sailing

- skying

- buying motors

- building boats

- renovating cars

Be happy you are in 1% of the richest ppl on the Earth.

Most of my friends are happy when they can get by in given month.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#278

Post by lucianbr »

sukruh wrote: post #53
lucianbr wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think that they wrote "fast-growing" as a positive attribute, when the logic of the comment would make it a negative attribute. Of course you can go looking again. But why not look for a slow-growing or not-growing small company, so you don't need to go looking so often?

Yes, fast-growing companies can grow out of my preference zone and as other commenters said, jumping ship when that happens may be the correct way to go. There are other issues with slow-growing or not-growing companies. When the company is not growing, people are incentivized to take a zero-sum approach to their work relationships. If the pie is not growing, you need to guard your own slice and take from others. Thi…

Oh, I think people take a zero-sum approach in growing companies as well. Maybe even more so.

https://spakhm.substack.com/p/how-to-get-promoted

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#279

Post by jimbokun »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #236
smackeyacky wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s soul destroying knowing your talents are wasted for 40+ hours a week

That's not "soul destroying", it's real life. The vast majority of people in this world have to do a job that they aren't in love with so that they can pay the bills. Anyone who is privileged enough to be in a highly paid tech job should be extremely thankful. Not only do we get paid well, we have to work 1/4 as hard as the people busting their asses for a living. We have a real sweetheart deal even if our jobs aren'…

There's something to be said for being able to look back and see a bridge or road or house of piece of furniture or an automobile you built, and see it's still being used and providing value to someone. Even if the monetary compensation was only mediocre.

Re: Woodworking as an escape from the absurdity of software

#280

Post by zerkten »

sukruh wrote: post #35

Most of the people I know who pursue creative/crafting hobbies alongside a software development job have chosen to work for well-known big companies, for prestige and safety, and ended up unfulfilled in their jobs. Most big companies are not good if you want to solve problems and build stuff. Especially "the enterprise", where software is seen as a cost center so the less of it the better. The effort of managing up e…

>> The effort of managing up eats a creative person's soul.

This really struck me because I'm realizing it is soul destroying but have gotten competent, and even good at it. I was involved in my family's small business and some of my own startup attempts and consulting, so I remember those feelings.

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