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Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

theguardian.com

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Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#271

Post by empath-nirvana »

ricksunny wrote: post #236
empath-nirvana wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's two definitions of EDM, the first is it's original intended definition, which was as a blanket classification for all electronic dance music -- techno, jungle, house, dubstep, whatever. Instead of calling it techno or electronica, or whatever, EDM was meant to encompass all of it. Almost immediately after the term started being used, though, it became strongly associated with a particular type of dance music…

Thanks, that helps. I would love to see a classifier try to cluster tracks across the different types of "not-necessarily-festival-EDM', and compare to see if it clusters as many fans also would.

It's hard to get even professional djs to agree on what genre songs are.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#272

Post by testfrequency »

larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

You know, I didn’t want to get attacked by Berliner’s for saying this…but I was pretty….whelmed…by the techno scene when I was there for a month.

I’ve enjoyed far more raves in LA and Detroit, and lots of harder techno clubs in Chicago that felt a lot more authentic. The Berlin crowds were kind and chill, but there definitely was this odd feeling where it all kinda felt..scripted?

I hadn’t gone to Berlin up until two years ago, so I can only imagine it was pretty incredible a decade ago before tourism swamped them.

And before anyone asks, I was rolling with native berliners and service industry folks, so I was fortunate to get in to and attend a lot of the best parties while I was there. I’d love to go back, I do just feel like it was slightly overhyped before I got there :/.

Happy for them regardless, they deserve the recognition even if I didn’t get to really experience the best of it

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#273

Post by [deleted] »

randomopining wrote: post #197
helboi4 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, exactly. It was German etc sounds being appreciated by African Americans in Detroit, being mixed with their influences in Chicago, and then travelling back across the Atlantic. Its a transatlantic international group effort and to deny either side of it misses the whole point.

You both explained it very succinctly. I don't get why people have to grasp at depictions of history that simply aren't true. They want to believe that Jeff Mills and Belleville 3 somehow created this new music from nothing and inspired the entire world.

[deleted]

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#274

Post by ambicapter »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #247
downWidOutaFite wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds similar to what's happened in Oakland, CA. When I moved here 25 years ago there was a huge underground music and arts scene in West Oakland warehouses but the last 10 years of gentrification has wiped it out. After the pandemic (and constant right-wing propaganda) Oakland is now once again deemed a wasteland and businesses are fleeing, but I've started noticing a new youth culture is slowly starting to em…

The crackdown on all the spaces after the Ghostship fire basically obliterated it. Says something about the civic culture in the US that they chose to just wipe those spaces out instead of just making sure they were safe.

"making sure they were safe" What a weird thing to say. Places like Ghostship are built on not following the rules. You think they're going to follow the rules on fire safety? You want the authorities to spent their time and energy trying to enforce rules on a place who's raison d'etre is to be anti-authority? Sounds like a waste of everyone's time.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#276

Post by whstl »

profstasiak wrote: post #139
pantalaimon wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don’t queue an hour at Mustafa's - it’s good Kebap, but it’s not that extraordinary. Rüya(m), Superhahn or Servet's make the same style of Gemüsekebap and are just as good.

Hey, my friend moved to Berlin 2 years ago and he takes everyone to Mustafa - is this a tourist attraction / internet one? I don't know why he does this, the kebap is original but nothing special tastewise.

Yep, it is definitely known as a tourist trap around here.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#277

Post by siquick »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #227
dopamean wrote: post #96

I wish Detroit had the marketing that Berlin does.

Yeah I associate techno a lot more with Detroit than Berlin. Detroit in Effect, Jeff Mills, Plastikman...

Plastikman/Hawtin isn’t from Detroit and no one from Detroit would want to claim him either.

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#278

Post by seabass-labrax »

wrs wrote: post #254
bravura wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://needleberlin.com/2014/07/03/the-two-faces-of-kreuzbe... "36 Brennt, 61 Pennt" 'I’ve tried to come up with a rhyme that works in English: “36’s on fire, 61’s just tired” was one solution, but it doesn’t carry the matter-of-factness of the German.'

ChatGPT suggests “36 blazes, 61 lazes”.

For a AI paradigm that gives the neural network no explicit information about phonetics, the ability of GPT to produce rhyming phrases never ceases to amaze me - especially in a language which is as infamous for its inconsistent orthography as English. Has there been any research attempting to work out how such subtle patterns are learnt by the AI?

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#279

Post by seabass-labrax »

testfrequency wrote: post #272
larodi wrote: post #4

According to many people, including record shop owners I’ve talked to, Berlin’s scene is actually not so underground and not so cool anymore as a result of tourism and immigration. Rich people nowadays buy property in Potsdam, and the scene is moving towards Leipzig. In a more general sense the old rave cities are making way, and have been making way, to other cities. A movement spanning more than 20 years now, thank…

You know, I didn’t want to get attacked by Berliner’s for saying this…but I was pretty….whelmed…by the techno scene when I was there for a month. I’ve enjoyed far more raves in LA and Detroit, and lots of harder techno clubs in Chicago that felt a lot more authentic. The Berlin crowds were kind and chill, but there definitely was this odd feeling where it all kinda felt..scripted? I hadn’t gone to Berlin up until two…

Clarification requested: surely that's underwhelmed? Or are you saying that you were emotionally involved in it despite the 'scripted' feeling as you describe?

Re: Berlin's techno scene added to Unesco intangible cultural heritage list

#280

Post by seabass-labrax »

immibis wrote: post #211
wheels wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tourism definitely wasn't a major drag on the techno scene. There's always been the tourist clubs and the clubs that were more underground. Berliners usually don't go to Berlin's best known clubs. (Who the hell goes to Watergate or Tresor? Old joke was that Tresor was the biggest club in Dresden.) I think the biggest drag is actually rent prices. When I got to Berlin 20 years ago you could get a room in a shared flat…

You are absolutely right about rent. Its effect is not limited to techno - rent extraction is a damper on everything in the economy (except for rent extraction). Imagine a guy comes around to your house every month and demands $1000 or else he breaks your kneecaps. You'd be quite motivated to ensure you can make that $1000 each month and you'd not be left with as much energy for doing everything else you might want t…

As someone who considers themselves somewhat principled, I would be somewhat more motivated to spend that month in exercise and martial arts training, to allow myself the opportunity to terminate this questionable attempt at a contractual relationship on the man's part. Replace acquiring 'physical fitness' with 'understanding of the minutiae of state and federal renting laws' though, and I think that would just about characterise my response to an obnoxious landlord, too...
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