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Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

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Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#271

Post by 0_____0 »

drewdevault wrote: post #263
jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

The only genuine path to sustainability is reduction. There is no sustainable way to have disposable single-use packaging that you throw away when the bottle empties. Glass bottles with a deposit to incentivize bottle return, following which they are washed and refilled with new product (ideally locally, with fresh ketchup arriving to local distribution centers in bulk), is a much more reasonable approach.

There's a cost associated with bottle return as well. Consumers also may feel weird about buying used packaging.

What I have seen work quite well is bulk filling stations in hippie groceries. So far liquid dispensing is limited to non-food e.g. laundry detergent but if people can grasp that model I think it can expand to a lot more items.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#272

Post by Tangurena2 »

lp4vn wrote: post #4

Very nice. I live alone and often I'm baffled by the sheer amount of garbage that my urban lifestyle generates. I was not alive in the 80's but I was told that people used to use more environment-friendly packaging like glass bottles. Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened.

Glass containers are heavy. Switching to plastic containers was lighter and reduced shipping expenses.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#273

Post by buildsjets »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

eli5:

The bottle is PET and is easily and commonly recycled, if it actually makes it to the recycling facility. About 30% of PET sold in the US actually gets recycled. It's the clear soda bottle plastic.

The cap was previously 99% PP and 1% Silicone and was not recyclable at all.

The cap is now 100% PP and therefore recyclable in theory, but in practice there are limited facilities that can recycle PP.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#274

Post by nonethewiser »

lp4vn wrote: post #4

Very nice. I live alone and often I'm baffled by the sheer amount of garbage that my urban lifestyle generates. I was not alive in the 80's but I was told that people used to use more environment-friendly packaging like glass bottles. Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened.

> Sometimes I wonder why this massive change to everything-should-be-packed-in-plastic happened

Easy - it's way cheaper.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#275

Post by singleshot_ »

bullfightonmars wrote: post #250
azemetre wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary? The only reason it’s used is that the externalities aren’t properly taxed (or not banned IMO). Maybe we should not use things that are “easier” when they’re contributing to a massive amount of pollution. I mean there was an article posted here about finding microplastics in a human fetus. Yet we still continue to use it.

Do bottles shed microplastics? Manufacturer > store > pantry > garbage can > dump. Isn’t the majority of this buried in the ground in dumps that are sealed off from groundwater? I suspect our clothes, cars/tires, houses, and other things that live outside contribute more to microplastics than food containers.

Fair point, but I don’t store very much of my food in a tire and I rarely, if ever put food in a shirt before I microwave it.

In the other hand, I probably have about a pound of Tupperware in my body. I guess my point is that you’re right about micro plastics in the environment, but I’m more concerned about the ones in me.

(Strenuously agree that both are bad).

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#276

Post by 0_____0 »

azemetre wrote: post #202
infecto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its cheaper and easier to ensure sanitary products. We love to be romantic about glass but I don't think as easy of a calculation for the total environmental use. Glass is heavier and more expensive to transport. Glass is harder to shape into sizes that make for efficient transportation, for example Costco square milk jugs. I love to use glass when I can but I don't know if using this glass jar which may not even be…

Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary? The only reason it’s used is that the externalities aren’t properly taxed (or not banned IMO). Maybe we should not use things that are “easier” when they’re contributing to a massive amount of pollution. I mean there was an article posted here about finding microplastics in a human fetus. Yet we still continue to use it.

Most microplastics in your environment are from tires and textiles. Blow molded PE is way down the list on what I'm worried about.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#277

Post by nonethewiser »

azemetre wrote: post #202
infecto wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its cheaper and easier to ensure sanitary products. We love to be romantic about glass but I don't think as easy of a calculation for the total environmental use. Glass is heavier and more expensive to transport. Glass is harder to shape into sizes that make for efficient transportation, for example Costco square milk jugs. I love to use glass when I can but I don't know if using this glass jar which may not even be…

Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary? The only reason it’s used is that the externalities aren’t properly taxed (or not banned IMO). Maybe we should not use things that are “easier” when they’re contributing to a massive amount of pollution. I mean there was an article posted here about finding microplastics in a human fetus. Yet we still continue to use it.

> Should plastic containers shedding millions of nano particles be considered sanitary?

It's not really on the scale of sanitariness. It's a pollutant and a problem. You can even say it's not worth the tradeoff. But no, plastics are not unsanitary because they can produce microsplastics.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#278

Post by ArnoVW »

jgalt212 wrote: post #213
Hizonner wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what's more efficient than glass? Ship the product in bulk and dispense it into the customer's container. And a lot of products could actually be formulated on site, because most of, say, your cleaning aisle is various combinations of relatively few standard components. The biggest barrier there are certain people's desires to control information and to create the perception of distinctions that don't exist.

> You know what's more efficient than glass? Ship the product in bulk and dispense it into the customer's container. yeah, that would be a great use of everyone's time. line up at the olive oil station, line up at the beer station, line up at the flour station, line up at the coffee station, line up at the ketchup station, .... and then on top of that, add up the time and expense of everyone getting a different price…

I know this will blow your mind, but where I do my shopping (France) this exists in many places and there are no queues.

It takes 1 minute more to fill a bag or bottle. But it prevents a heck of a lot of packaging. And I can take precisely the quantity I want, in the container that I want.

Perhaps you prefer the “old” way. Perhaps it is faster. But if we can not make tiny changes like that, how will we explain ourselves in 30 years time to our grandchildren?

“Yea I know sweety we messed up your planet. But I’ll be dead in 5 years and in the mean time it was really convenient. Sucks to be you”

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#279

Post by bastardoperator »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

Can't a metal/aluminum cap be endlessly recycled? Looks more like a cost cutting venture versus a lets save the planet venture.

Re: Heinz’s sustainable ketchup cap

#280

Post by cptcobalt »

drewdevault wrote: post #263
jrochkind1 wrote: post #223

> Currently only about 3% of PP products are being recycled in the United States, but it is becoming more widely accepted So now the relatively small amount of mass in the cap is just as recyclable as the bottle itself -- neither are actually going to be recycled. There's nothing to see here but marketing. And a an interesting engineering puzzle solved, sure. "How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Woul…

The only genuine path to sustainability is reduction. There is no sustainable way to have disposable single-use packaging that you throw away when the bottle empties. Glass bottles with a deposit to incentivize bottle return, following which they are washed and refilled with new product (ideally locally, with fresh ketchup arriving to local distribution centers in bulk), is a much more reasonable approach.

If I saw more packaging like this in my local stores, even if slightly more expensive, I'd pick it up every time. I think the overall friction is more in the return process, and that's where the space for innovation really lies.
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