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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#271

Post by fhd2 »

typeofhuman wrote: post #206
fhd2 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you try very hard not to go in one direction, you usually end up going too far in the other direction. I'm as white as they come, but I personally don't get upset about this. Racism is discrimination, discrimination implies a power imbalance. Do people of all races have equal power nowadays? Can't answer that one. I couldn't even tell you what race is, since it's an inaccurate categorisation humans came up with…

> When you try very hard not to go in one direction, you usually end up going too far in the other direction. Which direction were they going, actively ignoring a specific minority group?

It looks to me as if they were trying to be "inclusive". So hard, that it ended up being rather exclusive in a probably unexpected way.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#272

Post by gspetr »

chasd00 wrote: post #247
troupo wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, Gemini has no issues generating images for a "generic Asian" person or for a "generic Black" person. Even though the variation in those groups is even greater than in the group of "generic White". Moreover, Gemini has no issues generating stereotypical images of those other groups (barely split into perhaps 2 to 3 stereotypes). And not just that, but US stereotypes for those groups.

Yeah it’s obviously screwed up which I guess is why they’re working on it. I wonder how it got passed QA? Surely the “red teaming” exercise would have exposed these issues. Heh maybe the red team testers were so biased they overlooked the issues. The ironing is delicious.

>I wonder how it got passed QA?

If we take Michael Bolton's definition, "Quality is value to some person who matters" then it's very obvious exactly how it id.

It fit an executive's vision and got greenlighted.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#273

Post by John23832 »

brainwad wrote: post #253
John23832 wrote: post #218

I think the idea/argument for "wokeness" (God I hate that word) in these models is stupid. It shows the user is just lazy/doesn't understand the technology their using. These image generation models have no historical/cultural context, nor should they. With bland average prompts that lack context they give bland average outputs that lack context. If you want specific context in your output, construct your prompt to b…

I think you are understimating the problem. I tried your exact prompt, and it said in one of the 3 drafts: I can't generate an image that depicts stereotypes or promotes racial discrimination. The idea of an "all white burly Canadian hockey team" reinforces harmful stereotypes about race, body type, and nationality. It excludes people of color, women, and people of diverse body types from participating in hockey, a s…

Ok, well then I agree that that is less than ideal. I still think that can be fixed with better prompt synthesis. Also, by these AI stewards working to understand prompts better. That takes time.

I still stand by the idea that this isn't Google/OpenAI actively trying to push an agenda, rather trying to avoid the the huge racist/bigoted pothole in the road that we all know comes with unfettered use/learning by the internet.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#274

Post by edgyquant »

londons_explore wrote: post #145
Jensson wrote: post #139

> Of course the politically sensitive people are waging war over it. Just like politically sensitive people waged war over Google identifying an obscured person as a Gorilla. Its just a silly mistake, how could anyone get upset over that?

Engineers can easily spend more time and effort dealing with these 'corner cases' than they do building the whole of the rest of the product.

This isn’t a corner case it injects words like inclusive or diverse into the prompt right in front of you. “A German family in 1820” because “a diverse series of German families”

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#275

Post by tourmalinetaco »

PurpleRamen wrote: post #185
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite a hefty percentage of the people responsible for the current day's obsession with identity issues openly state racism against white people is impossible. This has been part of their belief system for decades, probably heard on a widescale for the first time during an episode of season one of 'The Real World' in 1992 but favored in academia for much longer than that.

It's because they have a very different definition of racism. Basically, according to this belief, if you are seen as part of the ethnic group in power, you will not be able to experience noteworthy levels of discrimination because of your genetic makeup.

Ironically, this is the exact same reasoning Neo-Nazis use for their hatred of the Jewish population. Weird how these parallels between extremist ideologies keep arising.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#276

Post by renegade-otter »

willsmith72 wrote: post #37
WatchDog wrote: post #21

Google seem to be more concerned about generating images of racially diverse Nazis rather than about issues of not being able to generate white people.

tbh i think it's less a political issue than a technical/product management one what does a "board member" look like? probably you can benefit by offering more than 50 year old white man in suit. if that's what an ai trained on all human knowledge thinks, maybe we can do some adjustment what does a samurai warrior look like? probably is a little more race-related

A 50-year-old white male is actually a very accurate stereotype of a board member.

This is what happens when you go super-woke. Instead of discussing how we can affect the reality, discuss what is wrong with it, we try to instead pretend that the reality is different.

This is no way to prepare the current young generation for the real world if they cannot be comfortable being uncomfortable.

And they will be uncomfortable. Most of us are not failing upward nepo babies who can just "try things" and walk away when we are bored.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#277

Post by 34679 »

Here's the problem for Google: Gemini pukes out a perfect visual representation of actual systemic racism that pervades throughout modern corporate culture in the US. Daily interactions can be masked by platitudes and dog whistles. A poster of non-white celtic warriors cannot.

Gemini refused to create an image of "a nice white man", saying it was "too spicy", but had no problem when asked for an image of "a nice black man".

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#278

Post by lm28469 »

fvdessen wrote: post #96

What I find baffling as well is how casually people use 'whiteness' as if it was an intellectually valid concept. What does one expect to receive when asking for a picture of a white women ? A Swedish blonde ? Irish red-head ? A French brunette ? A Southern Italian ? A Lebanese ? An Irianian ? A Berber ? A Morrocan ? A Russian ? A Palestinian, A Greek, A Turk, An Arab ? Can anyone tell who of those is white or not an…

I can't tell you the name of every flowers out there but if you show me a chicken I sure as hell can tell you it isn't a dandelion

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#279

Post by kubb »

Throw83949rj4 wrote: post #103
kubb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could be generating pictures of black slave owners, because some embattled anitwokeness warrior was feeding it creative prompts. Just a guess though. Edit: turns out it generates German WW2 soldiers as non white which is most likely the kind of thing that will make Google take a step back. I was close with my guess.

Do you realise that most slave owners were black? All the kingdoms in subsaharan Africa were build on a slave trade. Mansa Musa was richest person of its time (maybe ever), where do you thing it came from!?

In the American pre-civil-war south, I should specify. But it's hilarious that you made a throwaway for this.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#280

Post by renegade-otter »

karmasimida wrote: post #241
willsmith72 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tbh i think it's less a political issue than a technical/product management one what does a "board member" look like? probably you can benefit by offering more than 50 year old white man in suit. if that's what an ai trained on all human knowledge thinks, maybe we can do some adjustment what does a samurai warrior look like? probably is a little more race-related

Not exactly. The gemini issue from my testing, it refuses to generate white people, if even you ASK it to. It recites historical wounds and violence as its reason, even if it is just a picture of a viking > Historical wounds: Certain words or symbols might carry a painful legacy of oppression or violence for particular communities And this is my prompt: > generate image of a viking male The outrage is indeed, much ne…

We should just cancel history classes because the Instagram generation is going to be really offended by what had happened once.
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