Live data from Hacker News

The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

blog.raed.dev

271–280 of 511 posts

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#271
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were supporting Sony, EMI, Universal, Warner, or some other record label. The best way to support a band, as far as I know, is to turn up to their shows and/or buy their merch. Royalties were always a dicey revenue stream.

> You were supporting Sony, EMI, Universal, Warner, or some other record label. For fringe metal music? Not likely!

By "fringe metal", they're likely talking about mainstream thrash and groove metal. And those bands where on these exact labels;

Reign in blood - Def Jam (1986) Pantera - Atco /WB (1986) Megadeth - Capital (1986) Sepultura - Roadrunner/WB (1989) Anthrax - Island/Universal (1985)

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#272
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the criticism I can wholeheartedly get behind. I'd love for my money to go to the artists I listen to (and not spread among everyone). However, I think it's a hard problem to solve. The huge fanbase of who listen to Tailor Swift on repeat will have some of their money go towards less popular bands. If all their money goes exclusively to Taylor Swift (and similar artists), it's possible that there will be quite…

> I'd love for my money to go to the artists I listen to (and not spread among everyone). > However, I think it's a hard problem to solve. All you have you have to do is buy the music. From either the band’s website, Apple, Amazon, Google, etc.

Bandcamp gives the highest % to the artist/label, and I would argue also the best place to buy music.

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#273

I’ve moved to Tidal and Bandcamp. Tidal has roughly the same catalog as Spotify plus high quality / lossless playback options if the album / artist supports it. Tidal also integrates with a lot of DJ software like Rekordbox and Djay. These apps let you play from Todal but disable recording when using a streaming service. Bandcamp is the real way to support labels and artists by buying music directly. You download the…

Can you do the difference between 320kbits/s OGG Vorbis, 16bits at 44100Hz, and 24 bits 48000Hz lossless audio? Using the same master, I don't.

I’m an audiophile skeptic too, 320 kbps ogg is great for most casual listening.

But as a DJ and audio/video artist, I absolutely can tell the difference using lossless sources vs lossy in some contexts.

Again Bandcamp is great because you can get FLAC or Wav and take those to the club sound system or remix them in Ableton or Final Cut. Then record the output and compress it for SoundCloud or YouTube.

Recompressing compressed files is the main place I notice differences.

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#274
Summary: Spotify was better when it was a dumb pipe for music that used the canard of "supporting artists directly" to get people to upgrade to Premium.

Spotify is a middleman for the Big 5 record labels. They and advertisers are the customer, not the scrubs paying $12/mo. They cannot just show you music, they don't make any money on that. It's podcasts all the way down because they can stuff it with ads, and don't have to kick back 90% to the rights owner.

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#275
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip-side is that most of those metal bands now make almost no money on people listening to their music compared to what they did when they sold CDs through a lot of indie record companies. I don’t personally mind music services too much. I don’t use Spotify because Apple Music comes with our family plan, but I might use it otherwise. It has value for me because my daughter listens to a lot of different music, bu…

> The flip-side is that most of those metal bands now make almost no money on people listening to their music compared to what they did when they sold CDs through a lot of indie record companies. I was a roadie on my friend's metal band around 2000-ish, they were not in any record company and just sold their CDs through DIY, during live shows, word of mouth, etc. My point is not all bands are in a record company, mos…

[deleted]

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#276
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the criticism I can wholeheartedly get behind. I'd love for my money to go to the artists I listen to (and not spread among everyone). However, I think it's a hard problem to solve. The huge fanbase of who listen to Tailor Swift on repeat will have some of their money go towards less popular bands. If all their money goes exclusively to Taylor Swift (and similar artists), it's possible that there will be quite…

> I'd love for my money to go to the artists I listen to (and not spread among everyone). > However, I think it's a hard problem to solve. All you have you have to do is buy the music. From either the band’s website, Apple, Amazon, Google, etc.

I rarely listen to a band. Or even to an album. I often listen to music of a specific genre, and for that Spotify (and similar services) are great: I discover artists I'd never discover otherwise.

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#277
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip-side is that most of those metal bands now make almost no money on people listening to their music compared to what they did when they sold CDs through a lot of indie record companies. I don’t personally mind music services too much. I don’t use Spotify because Apple Music comes with our family plan, but I might use it otherwise. It has value for me because my daughter listens to a lot of different music, bu…

> The flip-side is that most of those metal bands now make almost no money on people listening to their music compared to what they did when they sold CDs through a lot of indie record companies. I was a roadie on my friend's metal band around 2000-ish, they were not in any record company and just sold their CDs through DIY, during live shows, word of mouth, etc. My point is not all bands are in a record company, mos…

A win for availability and potential audience, but if it causes less people to buy your CD/USB stick/whatever at shows - perhaps a significant reduction on income for the majority of gigging bands?

Do any of the streaming platforms let you direct fans to your own website/Bandcamp to make a purchase?

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#278
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I buy music, but that's really beside the point and not at all to do with the problem that is being raised. We (at least me and whoever wrote this article) are in fact choosing to not use streaming services. But even if people are "really cheap" there's no particular reason their money should be split across artists they don't listen to, and there's no particular reason to defend this practice as if it simply mu…

> But even if people are "really cheap" there's no particular reason their money should be split across artists they don't listen to, Listeners opted into buying a product sold by a business that does that. And the music creator also opted into it. That is where the market cleared. And people had and have the option to simply pay for the music directly, but they don’t want to. >and there's no particular reason to def…

> Yes, there is. They opted into buying a product sold by a business that does that. And the music creator also opted into it. That is where the market cleared. And people had and have the option to simply pay for the music directly, but they don’t want to.

Most people don't and will never have a deep understanding of what they're spending their money on. They are paying money to be able to stream music, and that's as far as 99% of the consumer base has thought things through. It's, unfortunately, always going to be the job of far fewer people to try to get some oversight into bad practices, because the market won't just magically do that on its own. To many people, it comes as a surprise that it's fully possible for them to listen to an artist all the time and yet have the vast majority of their subscription payment go to an entirely different artist they don't even listen to. Legitimately, people are surprised to learn this. It's not intuitive at all.

(P.S.: The fact that something is the way it is today is not in and of itself a "reason", that's just tautological.)

> Anyone is welcome at anytime to come up with an alternative. With the internet, it has never been easier. The fact that this is the dominant model indicates that this is the solution that works for most people (due to them not wanting to pay more for music).

Maybe 20 years ago, but this is pretty crazy to say today. We're going a bit in circles though. I already kind of went in this direction:

> It's not that all things middlemen do are bad, it's that they routinely gain immense power in the market and then together they act against the best interests of nearly everyone other than themselves, while the barrier to entry remains so high that it may as well not be possible for all intents and purposes.

Barely anyone is actually capable of competing with Spotify in any meaningful way. Apple is one of the richest and most resourceful companies in the world and they already had a massive userbase of people purchasing music and it wasn't even that easy of a fight for them to get in the door with streaming. Spotify is still the global leader by a long shot.

> Don’t see why this has to be true, different businesses have different parameters and supply and demand curves that result in different solutions.

Unless you demonstrate some kind of reason why music would specifically have to work differently, I don't think it makes sense to simply take it at face value that it does. Which parameters? Why music specifically and not other industries? I think the answer is more cynical and less satisfying, which is to say, it was and is an industry that's easy to abuse, not unlike many other industries that have also suffered from pretty ridiculously unfair labor and payment practices, like anime, game development, or the VFX industry.

> The funny thing is even at this low price of Spotify, Spotify still loses money.

And yet its shares have been a rocket ship up the past couple years. If anyone is concerned about losing money at Spotify, it sure doesn't show in their operating margin data points, and it sure doesn't show very much with the people invested in it. They know as well as anyone does that competing with Spotify and the other handful of big players is basically impossible if you're not either extremely wealthy or already one of them, so there's probably little reason to fret over it. Even amidst their huge layoffs at the end of the year last year, I would place my bets on them continuing to lose money and keep investing.

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#279
post #265
post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those per country pools are an interesting tool: being as German as I happen to be, my natural reaction to subscriber share (this seems to be the established term for weighted by utilization?) is "can't do that, because Data Protection". We do like to imagine that it should in some miraculous way be possible to use streaming without the streaming provider knowing what we stream, and that Bad Things Will Happen if tha…

There's no chance that this is blocked by data protection laws. This is looks exactly like the kind of case where data can be collected and processed without consent, since it's needed to operate the service and meet the contractual obligations of paying the musicians the right amount. (And that doesn't mean that they could keep the data indefinitely or use it for other purposes without consent.)

On top of that this data can be completely anonymised without compromising the data. All you need is an entry "a user listened to a song".

This probably gets more hairy when it comes to a user's listening history and things like Spotify Wrapped, discover weekly etc., but this is one of those areas that fall under expectations from a service, legitimate interest etc.

Re: The day I canceled my Spotify subscription

#280
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My entire strategy was based on going to a record store and buying whatever had appealing cover art in the metal section. And I did this A LOT. By doing this, you supported the bands you liked, and supported experimentation by accidentally subsidizing a lot of bands which didn't turn out so great (at the very least, experimentation in cool album covers...) But you don't actually do that on Spotify. As the article c…

Weren't we all complaining 20 y ago that music labels were giving bands pennies on the dollar and the only way they could actually live off of the music was by touring and selling merch? I think Radiohead then did the groundbreaking selling of mp3s for a pay what you want fee. Now the baddie is Spotify.

It wasn't that groundbreaking. Radiohead were already massively popular despite taking the anti-Britpop, anti-commercial rock route in the '90s. The online MP3 thing in 2007 was a bit of a publicity stunt -- the record was still distributed by XL , which retained all the traditional distribution channels.

I believe Smashing Pumpkins actually beat them to it by several years by releasing Machina II for free online in 2000 after the breakup of the band.

Post reply on HN