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Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

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Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#271

Post by toomuchtodo »

thinkcontext wrote: post #201
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way solar can grow geometrically for long. It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Land is limited; sunlight is limited. It has a hard, hard limit. Unlike many other kinds of power generation, which are land-frugal and work 24 hours a day. So, let's rethink who doesn't understand growth.

If you are concerned about solar's use of land then you must be positively apoplectic about using corn for ethanol. That uses more than 40% of US corn production, an amount of acreage so vast it's difficult to comprehend.

~40 million acres.

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/03/10/solarfood-in-ethanol-...

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#272

Post by JoeAltmaier »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #113
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no way solar can grow geometrically for long. It consumes real estate like there's no tomorrow. Land is limited; sunlight is limited. It has a hard, hard limit. Unlike many other kinds of power generation, which are land-frugal and work 24 hours a day. So, let's rethink who doesn't understand growth.

California has a lot of desert. A lot a lot.

The single most fragile ecosystem in the world is a desert. The casual way folks here throw that line out, again and again - shows a profound lack of understanding about what an ecosystem is.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#273

Post by JoeAltmaier »

defrost wrote: post #270
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very encouraging! Now, to find that level unobstructed ground-level stable dry cheap tracts near grids, with access for maintenance. Near where folks need the electricity. And the land isn't ecologically significant. And remember, storage or it's not helping for shit. There are so many obstacles left! So many reasons it will slow down once the enthusiasm and price supports have dried up. Like everything else we've ev…

I would have thought the US had several people capable of purchasing an area only a third of an Australian cattle station to corner the future market for solar energy production and build out HVDC delivery lines .. but I forgot it's been all downhill since the space program. The money is same scale as oil & gas investments so it's not exactly something that isn't being done already - the layout can one big area, many…

Isn't that a curious thing? The most successful businessmen on the planet, and they don't jump into large-scale solar like the pundits think they should?

Maybe that says something about the business model, hm? About how easy or how useful or how successful such an attempt would be.

Armchair energy experts can say anything, claim anything. But follow the money, that tells you what can work and what can't.

Not saying it will never work. But for now, largescale solar is fraught with landmines. But I said that already and been ignored because it's easier to make wild claims than address hard realities.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#274

Post by pfdietz »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #267
pfdietz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you provide actual evidence for your assertion. You will not be able to, because it is false. The land area in the US is enormous and land cost is only a small fraction of the cost of a PV field. And, of course, grids can be extended as needed. The trolling is entirely yours.

Again with the hand-waving. "Land is big!" is no kind of argument or evidence. It all comes down to cost and practicality. Energy is not some game, its business. And with dropping panel cost, land is the last remaining hard nut in the equation. Not a small fraction, a large one, and becoming larger. As for understanding math, the earth is not getting any bigger. That limit cannot be beat, no matter how breathless the…

> Again with the hand-waving.

You are engaging in a stereotypical crank behavior here. Make a ludicrous claim without evidence, then demand detailed argument when someone calls you on it.

No, it is YOUR responsibility to argue your initial claim. Only when you have given that detailed argument can you require a detailed argument in rebuttal.

I remind you of Hitchen's Razor: "what is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#275

Post by epistasis »

asadotzler wrote: post #261
epistasis wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this article, the staff for the regulator in Georgia (the only entity in the decision making process looking out for the customers, ratepayers) were banned from even considering the cost of renewables: > Plant Vogtle proceeded with no cost-cap, no consumer protections, and Public Service Commission (PSC) staff were prohibited from conducting analysis comparing the costs of nuclear to clean energy alterna…

>Nuclear in the US is so expensive that even starting a new reactor requires considerable corruption. Best line I've come across in a while. I'm gonna use it. Is it yours?

Just seeing your comment 10 days after it was posted, but I have many fond memories of your work, and it would be an honor for Asa Dotzler to use one of my lines.

Re: Solar and battery to make up 81% of new US electric-generating capacity in 2024

#276

Post by pfdietz »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #273
defrost wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have thought the US had several people capable of purchasing an area only a third of an Australian cattle station to corner the future market for solar energy production and build out HVDC delivery lines .. but I forgot it's been all downhill since the space program. The money is same scale as oil & gas investments so it's not exactly something that isn't being done already - the layout can one big area, many…

Isn't that a curious thing? The most successful businessmen on the planet, and they don't jump into large-scale solar like the pundits think they should? Maybe that says something about the business model, hm? About how easy or how useful or how successful such an attempt would be. Armchair energy experts can say anything, claim anything. But follow the money, that tells you what can work and what can't. Not saying i…

When CO2 isn't being taxed, of course they don't jump directly into solar. It's like when emissions from a coal plant aren't penalized, they don't install scrubbers or filters. Never mind that the Clean Air Act caused reductions in emissions that were worth 40x the cost of the controls.

What you are just talking about there is that negative externalities are not controlled by market forces, but have to be regulated.

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