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"Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

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271–280 of 417 posts

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are US banks just a lot more strict about source of income than Canadian banks?

Total conjecture: 1. US banks do not face nearly as diverse a set of applicants, and 2. are only required to hold the loan for 5 years. 1. It is very common in Canada for a person with wealth acquired outside the country to apply for a home loan. At the time I was approved as a guarantor for a home loan for over half a million CAD, I had only been in the country for 2 years, and had no credit history with any Canadia…

I got the feeling that the HSBC in Bellevue Washington catered primarily to overseas Chinese clients looking to buy homes in the Seattle area. Most of the employees spoke some dialect of Chinese. I have no idea about the loan officers, however.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#272

I have said this over and over again: Canada is the most overrated of all the developed countries. The whole country is a gigantic house of cards propped up by real estate, with horrible service quality, terrible healthcare, no jobs, ZERO innovation, risk taking and entrepreneurship. Having lived and travelled extensively, most Canadians want a house somewhere in the woods instead of doing something meaningful with t…

Ok, but please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Edit: looks like we had to ask you exactly this before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34844518, about exactly the same topic. Can you please not do this on HN? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lol what? That’s the same old tax argument over again. I thought you all were motivated by things other than money? You know, that entrepreneurial spirit? The incentive is it’s still a fuckton more money. You’re not taxed at 100% and in turn you live in a country with better services. The amount of money wasted by the rich is hilarious when combined with this take.

The whole point of a business is to make a profit: I worked hard because I am middle aged and had no retirement savings - my other choice was FIRE or to suck on the government's teat. Running a "business" for status is defined as a hobby. 1 in 10 businesses survive. Why bother starting one if you don't get your 10x return? If you've got one, why bother trying to be a serial entrepreneur if it's all gonna be taxed? Do…

Because your business doesn’t just start earning 20m and that’s still only 150000. Are you arguing against fake numbers?

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asserting that housing—or any basic necessity—shouldn’t be an investment is a dangerously naive stance that flies in the face of economic reality and human history. Consider food, water, healthcare—all necessities, yet all benefit from private investment and innovation. The collectivist dream to strip away the investment aspect of housing is a recipe for disaster, leading to shortages, degradation, and inefficiency.…

> Consider food, water, healthcare—all necessities, yet all benefit from private investment and innovation. I live beside the river Thames, which private "investment" has transformed into a sewer. My access to food has shrunk; I used to have access to butchers, greengrocers and so on. Now all my food comes from supermarkets. The health system I depend on has been gradually privatized, and it is now at breaking point.…

Blaming private investment for pollution and housing issues ignores the core role of government in regulating externalities and protecting property rights. The Thames’ state isn’t due to market failure but government inaction, a prime example of state failure. Moreover, the economic decline witnessed in the UK isn’t caused by capitalism but by anti-market policies stifling competitiveness. The real issue is the collectivist delusion that more state control is the solution, ignoring that such approaches have consistently led to further decline. Misplacing blame on capitalism and pining for socialism only exacerbates the problems, diverting us from the proven path to prosperity: free markets and effective, limited government intervention.

Lamenting the rise of supermarkets as a death knell for local butchers and greengrocers is a misplaced nostalgia that ignores consumer choice and market efficiency. Supermarkets thrive because they offer what consumers demand: variety, convenience, and affordability. To decry this as a market failure is to advocate for a return to less efficient, more costly ways of living, under the guise of preserving tradition. It’s an affront to consumer sovereignty and a free market that naturally evolves to meet changing societal needs. Yearning for a past that restricts choice and elevates prices is a backward step, not progress.

Criticizing absentee landlords as mere speculators ignores the benefits they bring: paying property taxes and injecting capital into the economy. This isn’t about speculation; it’s about fulfilling market demand and facilitating economic activity. The real issue lies in state-imposed barriers that prevent adequate housing supply, not in the actions of individual investors. Blaming investors for taking advantage of market opportunities is misguided and diverts attention from necessary reforms to increase housing availability and affordability.

The collectivist dismissal of history as "squishy" is a deliberate evasion of undeniable truths. History is replete with the failures of socialism and the triumphs of capitalism. To mold it to fit a narrative that justifies state control and collectivism is intellectually dishonest and dangerously naive. The empirical evidence is clear: wherever socialism has been tried, it has led to economic stagnation, misery, and the erosion of freedoms. Capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty and spurred innovation and prosperity unmatched by any collectivist scheme. Ignoring these facts is not just an error in judgment; it's a willful blindness to the lessons that history has painstakingly taught us about the superiority of market freedom over state control.

Whenever the cry of "market failure" echoes, a closer inspection often reveals the true culprit: state failure. "If someone considers that there is a market failure, I would suggest that they check to see if there is state intervention involved. And if they find that that’s not the case, I would suggest that they check again, because obviously there’s a mistake." This wisdom holds true across the spectrum of economic grievances. Time and again, what is hastily labeled as a failure of capitalism turns out to be the unintended consequences of excessive regulation, misguided policies, or government overreach. The path to prosperity is not paved by increasing state control but by unleashing the creative and productive powers of the free market.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#275

I have said this over and over again: Canada is the most overrated of all the developed countries. The whole country is a gigantic house of cards propped up by real estate, with horrible service quality, terrible healthcare, no jobs, ZERO innovation, risk taking and entrepreneurship. Having lived and travelled extensively, most Canadians want a house somewhere in the woods instead of doing something meaningful with t…

Nah, have you seen what comes out of Waterloo and University of Toronto? Canada will be fine.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an immigrant into Canada: even if that description were true, it still would make it a lot better than the majority of other countries in the world. Luckily, Canada is a lot better than your description.

OP is comparing Canada to other developed nations. Canada is pretty subpar compared to most places in EU or US on all fronts: weather, housing, quality of life, innovation and salaries. We have people renting a single bed in the same room for 600$/mo in Toronto. I suppose that however if you are an immigrant from a war torn country or a developing country, Canada would look like heaven.

Weather: Canada's weather certainly isn't the best, but not really worse than other northern climate countries.

Housing: Large cities like Toronto and Vancouver are unaffordable, but so are other large cities like London, New York etc. Just like most other countries, if you want to pay less for housing, go to a smaller city

Quality of life: how are you measuring this? By most measures (life expectancy, crime etc) Canada is well ahead of the US.

Innovation and salaries: Innovation is a bit hard to define, but salaries are definitely lower than the US. But here the US is also an outlier (at least for high earners) compared to most other countries. Tech salaries in Canada for example aren't lower than most European countries.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming foreign investors for a housing crisis is a smokescreen. It's not the demand from investors that's the issue; it's the government's stifling regulations that choke new construction. The mess is because of state failure, not market failure. When sellers freely sell their homes to foreign buyers, they're making choices that benefit them. Why should we deny them that right? The real absurdity is ignoring the ele…

Yup. The Power of Pricing is a thing that exists whether you want it to or not. Smart policy uses it to great advantage. Dumb policy redirects this to hurt those it intends to help. Rent control, restrictions on production, byzantine zoning and construction rules... all contribute to distorting the market in ways that push back on the original (or at least, stated) intentions. You want housing to be cheaper? Increase…

China doesn’t allow non-residents to buy property at all. You have to be working in the city you want to buy in for a few years with documentation if you don’t have hukou there.

Maybe the USA and Canada could do something similar? I find it ironic that it’s primarily Chinese investors who want us to keep our property markets open.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#278
post #188

I have said this over and over again: Canada is the most overrated of all the developed countries. The whole country is a gigantic house of cards propped up by real estate, with horrible service quality, terrible healthcare, no jobs, ZERO innovation, risk taking and entrepreneurship. Having lived and travelled extensively, most Canadians want a house somewhere in the woods instead of doing something meaningful with t…

I worked with an Indian migrant to Canada. He was very good at his job, a great team player, and overall an amazing guy. Your description is unfair.

[dead]

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#279
Sam Cooper makes a living with China xenophobia. He was fired from his stint at Global for accusing a Canadian MP of colluding with China according to “sources”. That MP sued Global who fired Cooper. So I take his articles with a huge grain of salt.

Re: "Fake Chinese income" mortgages fuel Toronto real estate bubble: HSBC bank leaks

#280
post #279

Sam Cooper makes a living with China xenophobia. He was fired from his stint at Global for accusing a Canadian MP of colluding with China according to “sources”. That MP sued Global who fired Cooper. So I take his articles with a huge grain of salt.

Well atleast we know where you stand tho
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